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Elvis_Priestly
08-05-2007, 10:02 AM
Elvis died of a drug overdose, he wasted his talent and destroyed himself and despite the odd moment of brilliance his later years were a drug fuelled acceleration towards his death. We lament the sadness of his passing, wish to reach back in time and save him from himself and from those around him. The MM have all told their stories, and made some money from doing so. Dr Nick is about to tell his story, bankrupt again as he was in the 1970's despite his income from his most famous patient.
All this, if you want to appear as a credible Elvis fan and not a "loony" is accepted wisdom. Is it true though? Is there enough to doubt that the Elvis story ended in a tragedy of his own making. I remain sceptical enough to offer the following if not to convince to place the question in our minds that the accepted story may not be accurate. Elvis was first declared "strung out" in the American tabloids during his own life time. These are the same publications which after his death stirred up rumours of his "resurrection" to continue to improve their circulation from the use of his name. Three of his "friends" wrote a book just before he died not asking "What Happened" but telling it as fact. Friends, one of whom had already shown his loyalty with a four year self-imposed exile after he'd been slighted by Elvis at the time of his wedding. But in answering the question "What happened" they answered another question "what happens?" What happens when the sole earner and contributor to a fine lifestyle departs? Continue to live off his name in books and interviews.
What's the conspiracy I'm suggesting? That Elvis may not have died as a consequence of drug abuse, that he may have died of natural causes as a consequence of congenital illness. That the stories we have been told need to be questioned and examined. That as with all conspiracies look where the money is and in this case, as in so much today, there's better money in scandal than in truth.

Here are the facts which prompt such speculation and hopefully might prompt similar speculation in you the reader.

The Shelby County Medical Examiner Dr. Francisco said:
"the amount of drugs found in Presley's body, collectively, would not have constituted a drug overdose. And he said it was unlikely that the drugs' chemical reactions within the body could have contributed to his death. He said Presley died of a heart disease. "Had these drugs not been there, he still would have died."(D)

His assertion was supported by a further analysis of specimens undertaken by a Dr Finkle of the Toxicology Department at the University of Utah who
"found that 11 drugs were present in the singer's system at the time of his death. All of those drugs were consistent with medical treatment, said the director of the Center for Human Toxicology, Dr. Bryan S. Finkle. The center had been called in to provide a third toxicological analysis of typical autopsy specimens from Presley's body. He reported, "We have not detected any drug in Elvis that doesn't have a medical rationale to it–only agents prescribed for perfectly normal, rational medical reasons."(D)

In 1994 a further review of the autopsy was undertaken by a Dr Joseph Davis who said 'There is nothing, in any of the data that supports a death from drugs. In fact, everything points to a sudden, violent heart attack.'(A)

That's three specialists who agree and have declared that Elvis did not die from drugs. One of whom from a highly respected Department of Toxicology and one who was a specialist in drug related deaths Dr Joseph Davis who was considered:
"a legend in the pathology field. During Davis's 40-year tenure [at Miami-Dade County], the county morgue earned a reputation as a first-class facility for the study of death. During Dade's cocaine-cowboy days in the 1980s, nearly a quarter of the bodies entered the morgue with drugs in their bloodstreams. County medical examiners were among the first to document how small amounts of the drug increase heart rate, blood pressure, and expose users to heart-attack risk."(B)
With this experience and expertise he says 'There is nothing, in any of the data that supports a death from drugs.'

What about those eleven different drugs though? Why would anyone need that amount of drugs? They were:
'Dr. Francisco, quoted the medical examiner as saying that four drugs were found in significant quantities in the entertainer's bloodstream. They are Ethinamate, Methaqualone, codeine and barbiturates. The first two are sedatives; codeine is a narcotic analgesic or milder, secondary pain killer, and barbiturates are "downers" or sedatives or depressants.
Dr. Francisco was quoted as saying that four other drugs–the antihistamine chlorpheniramine, meperidine, morphine and Valium? were found in what were said to be insignificant amounts.
Meperidine and morphine are pain killers and Valium is a tranquilizer.
Presley was not taking morphine per se; the morphine was a byproduct of the codeine."(D)

Pain, allergies and sleep trouble could explain these. Recently I had a tooth pulled, during a summer day which caused my allergies to flare, and soon a toxicological analysis of my blood would show I had taken: loratadine, azelastine, buclizine hydrochloride, paracetemol, codeine - and I’m healthy. We know Elvis had, since childhood, sleeping problems. We know he had just visited the dentist himself. We can, as some have, speculate on what other conditions he may have had but can with some certainty agree that:
"Presley's illnesses included hypertension, some cardiovascular compromise and a colon obstruction. He fought a losing battle with a weight problem for several years. [And] "As a toxicologist, if you ask me why he had the drugs (in his system), the answer is that he needed them medically. All the drugs were in a range consistent with therapy and therapeutic requirements for known conditions of illnesses which he had," Dr. Finkle said." (D)

Other conditions?
"A few years ago, Dr Nick re-examined a selection of x-rays taken of Elvis at the Baptist Hospital during the 70s. Now, he thinks, Elvis must really have been feeling a lot of the pain they thought at the time was a junkie stunt: he may have been suffering from degenerative arthritis."(A)
A physician diagnosing with hindsight and much too late to help the patient who had helped him.
The National Migraine Association speculated after hearing a ...
"Washington, D.C. radio broadcast which talked about leaked information from Elvis' autopsy, including certain drugs found in the singer's bloodstream such as Demerol, Propranolol, LSD, and antiemetics. The primary indicator that Elvis had Migraines gleaned from these public reports was that the very drugs found in Elvis' system at the time of the autopsy were used in the 70's to treat anyone under good prudent care for intractable Migraine. ... This is important because ergotamine most often tests as LSD, as ergot alkaloid is structurally related to the potent hallucinogen LSD. In addition, Propranolol, Demerol, and antiemetics were all common medications used to treat Migraine." ?

Migraines and degenerative arthritis? We can speculate he had these but they are speculations prompted by some evidence. As too we could speculate that in later years, if not throughout life, Elvis suffered emotional problems with a depressive tendency. We can certainly find, in his immediate family, histories of: heart disease, digestive problems, weight problems and difficulty with sleep.

This has used a limited, though professional, range of sources and will be easily contradicted with the stories of those who appear to have known Elvis and even the well documented story of Dr Nick himself. After all we know, from many sources official and otherwise that:
"The Medical Board Tribunal heard evidence of astounding volumes of prescriptions written by Dr Nick. Between 1975 and 1977, he had prescribed 19,000 doses of drugs. In the first eight months of 1977 alone, he had written 199 prescriptions totalling more than 10,000 doses of sedatives, amphetamines and narcotics: all in Elvis's name."(A)

Look at that though beyond just the sheer volume but the timescale. It means that in the last eight months of Elvis's life Dr Nick was prescribing 2-3 times more than he had in the preceding 24 months. 10,000 doses between January and 16th August compared to 19000 from 1975-1977. That calculates as an escalation from 20 to 50 doses per day. Remember:
"the amount of drugs found in Presley's body, collectively, would not have constituted a drug overdose. And he said it was unlikely that the drugs' chemical reactions within the body could have contributed to his death. He said Presley died of a heart disease. "Had these drugs not been there, he still would have died."(D)
Dr Nick's medical record, and personal financial history, do not suggest he would be incapable of attempting to make financial gain from his position and access to prescription pads. Those who speak of Elvis's 'packets', such as the Stanley brothers, need to have their own credibility called into question. Even a most sympathetic view of the MM will not allow us to state categorically that any of them were educated enough to have a full understanding of pharmacology.

Does any of what I have said and presented here matter? I believe it does. I believe Elvis was the kind of extraordinary character with a tremendous gift whose own nature made him fairly silent in public in life and whose death has deprived us of the chance to hear his life story as he lived it. Instead we have a multitude of voices who proclaim so often that he ruined his own life and they absolve themselves by speaking of his temper etc. In 2027 the autopsy reports, that three of those cited in this article have seen, will be released and then we’ll know for sure. The three who have seen them have all declared that he did not die as a cause of drug abuse, the rest of us are expected to accept that he did. Some call for the reports to be released earlier and suggest conspiratorially there is a reason why they are not. To them I suggest that if their wish comes true and they are released soon I hope you will line up to comfort his child and grandchildren when the tabloids place pictures of his dissected cadaver on their front pages. For the rest of us I think we should hear Lisa-Marie's plea that we give Elvis dignity. The dignity of not judging him, labelling him, dismissing him, accusing him.

It matters because this may be light and dark. It may be that the bright light of an extraordinary talent has been dimmed by the desire to darken and taint that which is good with innuendo and libel. A constant conspiracy.

I pray he rests in peace but hope we who are alive remain unsettled when we think of him, unsettled enough to continue asking questions or to continue to appreciate we do not know the answers. Received wisdom is not always true, if it was many of our holidays would be ruined by falling of the edge of our flat earth.


[Sources referred to
(A) = "Dr Feelgood", The Observer 11 August 2002
(B) = "Quincy he ain't", Miami New Times, 27 May, 1999
? = Migraine Awareness Group: A National Understanding for Migraineurs
(D) = Salt Lake City Tribune on January 29th, 1978]

Diane
08-05-2007, 10:43 AM
Wow, that was a very good and very heavy post Conor. The medical authorities at the time stated Elvis died of a heart attack but the media continues to this day to say he died of his addiction and most people believe the latter. Scandal I guess is always more exciting to too many people and of course that infamous book fueled it all. I personally don't deny his addiction but unless proven to my satisfaction, will always feel that he had plenty of help with his addiction and very little to help him get free of it.

I sincerely hope that the reports will be released much sooner than 2027 because the people in Elvis' age group and in mine won't be around to find out the results and that is upsetting. I've never understood why the time wait....

Diane

KPM
08-05-2007, 02:53 PM
I had found what you posted a couple years back. I posted some of it here and at another forum. People just seem to not believe it. Thats their right.
But at the other forum I was attacked for posing these possiblilities. The assertion that now,with better understanding through the advances in medicine, they can look at old records and test results and find problems which were hard to diagnose in the past was really attacked. So was the idea that having an addictive personality had alot to do with the genes as it had to do with personal choice. Now both of these are becoming more and more medical fact and not theory. Heres a little text on President Lincoln and research into his medical problems:
Abraham Lincoln?s appearance and historical documents that note his especially clumsy gait have long caused researchers to puzzle over whether he may have had a genetic disorder called Marfan syndrome.

Now, members of the beloved president?s family tree are wondering if Lincoln had a different, incurable hereditary disease called ataxia that affects the coordination it takes to walk, write, speak and swallow.

Researchers at the University of Minnesota have discovered a gene mutation in 11 generations of relatives who descended from Lincoln?s grandparents, and they say there?s a 25 percent chance that Lincoln also inherited the gene, said Laura Ranum, a genetics professor who led the research......

Advances in medicine do happen every year and they do rewrite what is the norm.

Possibilities are to be explored and not ignored as just wishful thinking. IMO.

Diane
08-05-2007, 03:16 PM
That's true KPM. They are finally doing more research into genetics and are realizing how much a part it plays in our health, appearance and personality traits.

I've been into peafowl genetics for over 20 years now and although it can be rather complicated it's one of the most interesting subjects I've ever gotten into. By paying attention to my stack of notes I was able to breed true more often than not. There are sometimes an unexpected little surprise that comes from a couple of generations back. Also there are hidden genes that if the two in the pair share alike that are what they call "fatal genes", the bird either has deformities or a short life - or on the other hand share good genes and you get something spectacularly beautiful in health and appearance. The same holds true for animals and humans alike.

Elvis exhibited quite a few genetic traits from his mother's side, those we all know, and some of his dad's as in his hair graying early. Some traits are more prone to passing from father to son, mother to daughter, but others are intermingled. The strongest genes are shared among siblings so there is where you are taking the biggest chance for a disaster or if you're really lucky, something great in the mix.

Diane

Elvis_Priestly
08-06-2007, 02:44 AM
This should settle it, it's over. Now if people would put their energy in the important things in life. By this I mean, who is dead, who is alive and how you spend so much energy in finding this out. People are dying every day because of starvation, disease, etc. Peopel are put out of their homes by disasters. We should help one another. No one is better than any other. The greatest gift is to help yuor fellow brother/sister in need. The things you argue about are meaningless. It's life you need to be concerned with. When you are dead it is too late. It's a wonderful feeling to help someone. Put yourself in their shoes. Help someone feel good and feel good yourself. Stop the arguing. Millions without homes because of flooding. Whether you you believe it or not these are your brothers and sisters. We are all in this together. Care for your fellow man and stop worrying about senselesss things like who took what drugs and are they alive. Ok, I said what I wanted to say. I'll leave you alone. Please just think about it.

Adios,
Take care and God Bless



I have had a busy morning, and I admit, I didn't take the time to fully read your post, until now.

I would like to add, Conor, that I also feel that we need to care for others, especially those who are in the industry of care. Conor, your post saddens me because it is coming from you. :'(

We all know, that things aren't as they seem, aren't black and white. This is just so....hard.

There are so many people who are lonely, need friends, someone to talk to, or older people in homes. Children are mistreated, lost, animals are abandoned, including the bigger picture, as described by another poster here, so beautifully. Priorities are all wrong. Every single person, every person, is to be treasured and loved, each one of us is important, and each one of us, should be loved as the special individual we are.

Take the time to be there for other people; Elvis is special, not this, please, not this.

God Bless you Conor,
Kim

:hmm::blink:

Erm just checking did you both read beyond the first paragraph?

So saying we should be open minded enough to question the received wisdom and give Elvis the dignity he deserves is uncaring?

To support this with facts from people who base their conclusions on more than anecdotes and whose professional conclusions contradict the "Elvis killed himself with drugs" line is wrong?

This is only conjecture though as its hard to figure out what you are both objecting to in the midst of your sermons on caring for people. If I may be so bold as to add "you're preaching to the convertor" on that one.

Cally
08-06-2007, 05:12 AM
It's not very often I post here but just couldn't resist replying to this one.

I for one have experienced how caring Father Conor is, and I'm sure many others have. If you care enough to read what he has said I think you'll find it is actually an expression of his care not just for the memory of Elvis but for his children and grandchildren.

Diane
08-06-2007, 06:39 AM
I think we all got on our own slant a bit in this post and I would like to apologize to you Conor but I for one didn't and never have missed the deep caring you have for Elvis in your posts and for his surviving family and it is his family now that are left to suffer all the labeling and misconceptions about Elvis.

Diane

KPM
08-06-2007, 11:37 AM
My son picked me up a book at a flea market called "Elvis Up Close-In the words of those who knew him best" It had comments about Elvis and his life from 150 people who had known Elvis since Tupelo. Some of these people I had never heard of and it was extremely interesting. The Tupelo people gave many great stories about the Elvis and the Presleys in the beginning. The end concerning Elvis's death had many medical experts who went over his death and that was extremely interesting-thats where the connection to this thread comes in. They studied the toxicology report on They came away with the shared thought that he did not die from a drug overdose or interaction. They said exactly what the Doctor quoted by Father Conor said-that his death was sudden villent heart attack. They went thru thru the list of drugs in the report and what levels were in his body, blood, urine and liver. They gave the accepted levels for overdose and the levels in Elvis. They explained what each drug was for and who it might interact with others. The point I got from there comments was that the drugs he had in him were downer type drugs, and if he had died from overdose or interaction he would have gone to sleep, and his system would slow down until his breathing and heart stopped. Some times it takes hours to happen. they mentioned a drug coma which happens in this type overdose. Elvis did not go to sleep he was reading and fromthe description of his place in the room he had probably jumped up grabbing his chest, fell forward and crawled a few feet. One arm was under him, there were carpet fibers in his throat and he had bitten his tongue in a violent action which almost snipped off the end of his tongue. This is the description of a man who suddenly was gripped with a great violent pain, not someone who goes to sleep and dies peacefully. Such as Marilyn Monroes death. This book was written in 1994 and it mentions that a review of the autopsy and toxocolgy report was being done by an expert in Florida. (which would be the expert Conor quoted)
They did not say Elvis did not have a drug problem. But there were many health issues which were discussed and some of those I had never heard before. Arthritis of the neck and spine, diabitis, a colon problem, a ganglionic fold which was congenital and inherited, an others. I did not know that after a being in the hospital in 75 it had been recommended that Elvis get a partial colostomy but no one wanted to do it.
The 150 people included many who had written their own books, the Wests, other MM, relatives from Tupelo, Dr. Nick, girlfriends, step brothers, doctors songwriters, friends from the housing projects etc.
If this is all true it sure gave a new light to a lot of things.
But this is not a whitewash- also discussed were his dependencies and all his flaws. If you can find a copy it is a fascinating book from all angles on his life form Tupelo to his death.

Elvis_Priestly
08-06-2007, 11:46 AM
Thanks for sharing that KPM, disturbing reading but again emphasising that Elvis did not die of an overdose and the many illnesses the poor guy was afflicted with.
I wish I could remember where I read it but a physician present at the autopsy was said to have declared "for some one so beautiful on the outside he had so much wrong with him that beneath the skin it was dreadful."

Not to get into all that autopsy stuff too much though, just to challenge and hopefully eat away at a lot of slanders made against him and hopefully even get people to question their preconceptions of such a sad loss for us all.

KPM
08-06-2007, 12:04 PM
I hope you get a chance to read this book. It also had many happy and funny stories. The Tupelo and early Memphis sections were very informative with stories from alot of people who had never told them before. Its a well rounded read. It goes to all areas- from his personal life to his career, relationships etc.

Miss Clawdy
08-06-2007, 12:33 PM
Thank you Conor and KPM for sharing your posts, sad but interesting to read. My father died at the age of 44 of sudden cardiac death in his sleep, he never had a heart problem before and his "drugs" were cigarettes, coffee and stress. So I am inclined to accept Elvis could have died of a heart desease. And if not, I don't judge or accuse him of anything.
To EFriend - whose posts have disappeared - I think this here is TCB World, where Elvis fans meet, it might be possible that somebody talks about Elvis;) and if you want to care about your fellow men or to donate to flood victims you can do it. For my part I think that there's no need to always show off with our good deeds.

Diane
08-06-2007, 01:25 PM
I also want to thank Conor and KPM for their kind posts. I will be on the lookout for that book KPM. It does sound like a good positive one for a change, at least in parts and that is something in itself with all the garbage that is out there.

Everything I've read about how Elvis died points to a sudden violent heart attack. He may have survived if he had been found in time and again, maybe not, we'll never know.

However, I wish everyone would concentrate on posting the positive things about the man, the music and his life. The petty negative has no bearing at all on what he gave to the world and should be laid at rest once and for all.

Thank you for the quote from the physician who attended the autopsy Conor, that was quite a statement and an apt one and it certainly shows up the lack of proper care that he should have gotten.

Considering what Elvis left us, sympathy, love and respect is what he deserves and a huge THANK YOU, for the music, the kindnesses and sheer joy of his personality.

Diane

Miss Clawdy
08-06-2007, 02:05 PM
Diane, the book is available at Amazon, :D
Concerning the 'negative', I would like to know what is this terrible 'negative' in Elvis' life? I don't know why a way to die is more negative than another:doh:,
Nothing comes across my mind that was so negative in his life that we should keep silence about it. If you mean things he did to himself, I don't think that 'negative' is the right word, as it surely was not intended to be or cause something negative.;)

jak
08-06-2007, 02:16 PM
Read "The Death Of Elvis".It's one of the better books that details Elvis' last moments.I dont think it's a secret that Francisco covered up the details of Elvis' death.Even the people who worked under him at the time ridiculed his comments and statements regarding the cause of Elvis' death.Dont forget the bathroom where Elvis died was cleaned up also before evidence could be located to see if it could shed light on things.The cover up was to hide Elvis' drug use which had not been fully out in the open at that time.I sincerely hope people dont really believe Elvis actually needed all the drugs he was taking.
Jak

ksimms2
08-06-2007, 02:57 PM
I read the articles posted here and I have to say it sure makes my heart feel lighter. We knew he had a drug problem, or depended on them to go to sleep/wake up, etc. but knowing he died from a heart attack somehow makes things easier to accept. If that makes sense.

And like someone else said - no matter I love him and always will - and I do not think less of him for his drug dependency, he was a human being with human emotions.

I hope his daughter and his grandchildren know how much he is loved and respected and there will never be another Elvis.

Elvis, Always The Original
1935-1977

:king:

KPM
08-06-2007, 03:25 PM
I have read that book. I was pointing out another book which seemed to fit into this thread. If you have not read this one, "Elvis Up Close", it covers so much ground on so many subjects there would be no way to post all it entails. The 6.5 million dollar lawsuit filed in 74 against Elvis is talked about-what supposedly really happened and how Elvis settled that suit for around $600,000. The drug issues are talked about and what Doctor Nick says about his ailments and his dependencies. How Elvis would read about a new treatment for sleeplisness or weight loss and want to try them without really consulting Nick. Such as the acupuncture treatment in California to lose weight. The Doctor was not using acupuncture needles he was just injecting under Elvis back with a Demerol, Novacaine, and B-12 concoction. The Doctor had so much cortisone and demerol in it that Elvis got that bloated look and he became addicted to the demerol, says Nick. Then Elvis had to be put in the hospital to get weened off the demerol. But Someone had told Elvis about this amazing new treatment and he had to try it.
People who were close to the Presleys in Tupelo talk of how after Elvis was born Gladys changed she complained of being overly nervous a lot of the time and seemed always down. Insights I had never heard. (Too many to site the book is 397 pages long)
It offers a lot of things which are plausable. A Dr. Brookoff, ***. Med. Director of medical Ed. , Dr Merrigan a clinical pharmacologist and toxicologist, and a couple others are quoted on medical problems and treatments and his death.
No one is trying to say he did not have a problem with drugs, but they are saying he did have many medical problems.
It was a coincedence that Father Conor started this thread and I was given this book on Friday. It tied into what he posted. It is an informative book. 150 people who knew him and many who were close for years its worth the read. Then each decides on there own what sounds correct and what doesn't.

rocknroll
08-06-2007, 03:50 PM
Drugs didn't kill Elvis, breakfast did.

In other words, his horrible eating habits and abnormal lifestyle over many years finally caught up to him, as it would anyone. It is easy to say Elvis OD'd as he did abuse medications, but at the time of his death it was not an OD situation. Only people who don't, or can't, or just don't care to do research just take the easy way out and say, "Elvis OD'd". Just not true.

Diane
08-06-2007, 04:37 PM
Miss Clawdy, I bet when someone like Keith Richards passes on, nothing much will be mentioned about all the substances he ingested in his lifetime or his gauntness even if it turns out to be an overdose, fans will just mourn him but Elvis got condemned for having an addiction. It's considered a negative for him.........Why????

Janis Joplin is a great example.....she's just mourned, not put down or made fun of. That's why I feel the less said about his addiction the better because if us fans keep bringing it up non-fans will always see him that way and never see him the way he should be thought of.

Diane

jak
08-06-2007, 05:48 PM
Miss Clawdy, I bet when someone like Keith Richards passes on, nothing much will be mentioned about all the substances he ingested in his lifetime or his gauntness even if it turns out to be an overdose, fans will just mourn him but Elvis got condemned for having an addiction. It's considered a negative for him.........Why????

Janis Joplin is a great example.....she's just mourned, not put down or made fun of. That's why I feel the less said about his addiction the better because if us fans keep bringing it up non-fans will always see him that way and never see him the way he should be thought of.

Diane

What you said it true.Same for Jim Morrisson.Part of the reason Diane I think is because Elvis kept on performing and his condition was out there for all to see.Not everyone looked at Elvis they way the fans do.You had critics and others who were shocked at what they saw when they saw him perform in the later years.In a way elvis made himself an easy target.Another reason is that the reality of Elvis' life was so different than the image created around him.When the facts started coming out it was shocking to hear and created a sensation.People are drawn to that kinda stuff.Elvis image was dealt a tough hand in the end.His physical appearance,poor concerts,the bodyguard book and the how and where he died all worked against him.I guess you would say it wasnt fair but you cant change it.Trying to disregard his addiction doesnt do any good.It was the overwhelming factor in his life unfortunately the last few years.
Jak

Diane
08-06-2007, 06:29 PM
I know you're right in everything you posted Jak. Elvis did leave himself open by being more personable and getting closer to his fans than any other performer and when he appeared on stage in what you could call not the best condition, it was like telling someone whom you consider to be a close trusted friend a secret about yourself and then they turn around and use it on you like a weapon - the critics and others.

Where I think you and I may disagree is that I feel that the people closest to him should have kept their mouths shut. I sure wouldn't like it if my friends talked about me when I'm gone, nor would anyone else. Unless you are a horribly evil person, you should be able to go out of this world with grace - no jokes please - that's something I feel definitely should have not been aired to the public out of respect for someone you considered your "best friend".

Darn but I feel it's unfair for him who gave us more than any other performer to be viewed in such a bad light by too many. I really feel for his family to have to live with this day by day.....:'(

Diane

EFriend
08-06-2007, 06:35 PM
:hmm::blink:

Erm just checking did you both read beyond the first paragraph?

So saying we should be open minded enough to question the received wisdom and give Elvis the dignity he deserves is uncaring?

To support this with facts from people who base their conclusions on more than anecdotes and whose professional conclusions contradict the "Elvis killed himself with drugs" line is wrong?

This is only conjecture though as its hard to figure out what you are both objecting to in the midst of your sermons on caring for people. If I may be so bold as to add "you're preaching to the convertor" on that one.

Excuse me if I don't call you father Conor because you ain't my daddy and in my Bible, God is the father and you ain't God either. That post wasn't necessarily directed to you but for others as well. Oh and tell Miss Clawdy or whatever her name is, I didn't say anything about doing these things to get praise. I never said that. Remarkable how someone can enfer their own thoughts as someone elses. Imagine how Jesus feels that people are more interested in this news group than in what he has to say. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he that talked about feeding the poor, clothing the naked? Oh yes, and you can't serve two masters. That's a good one. Think about it. The one that I like, "where two or more are gathered in my name". I didn't see anything about being gathered in "Elvis'" name. Oh, this post will be deleted and I will be banned but that's no dust off my shoes. I know who I am. Oh Conor, did you know that "Elvis" didn't like to wear underwear because he sweated so much in his crotch that he would get blisters on the insides of his legs.

Merry
08-06-2007, 07:13 PM
Nahh, banned for what?

You are as polite as can be, in the context.

Kim

Diane
08-06-2007, 07:27 PM
That was a real mean post EFriend, totally disrespectful and uncalled for! (n)(n)(n)

Diane

Diane
08-06-2007, 08:12 PM
I have to disagree with you Kim on this one. I think the good caring people on this site vastly outweigh the few who are just here to brag about themselves or to cause trouble.

I don't post behind closed doors and I'm not afraid of backlash. I have begun to believe that there are people here that are deliberately trying to break this site in order to draw members to their own or to a favorite of theirs but it's not going to happen. I'm not falling for that and I'm not budging!

Diane

Merry
08-06-2007, 08:29 PM
I have to disagree with you Kim on this one. I think the good caring people on this site vastly outweigh the few who are just here to brag about themselves or to cause trouble.

I don't post behind closed doors and I'm not afraid of backlash. I have begun to believe that there are people here that are deliberately trying to break this site in order to draw members to their own or to a favorite of theirs but it's not going to happen. I'm not falling for that and I'm not budging!

Diane


Dearest Diane,

I agree with you with regard to the good caring people, they are definately in the majority; moreover, it was lovely that this place had a nice tone for some weeks, while some people were quiet, (whom you mention) the place buzzed, and has now sadly, changed again. Hopefully briefly.

I'm not afraid of backlash either, obviously; however, everyone is different, grows, or changes, that doesn't matter to me, I love " 'em" anyway. :hug:

I don't know what you are talking about re another site; (there is one I just thought of, they don't have ANY arguments, which sounds wonderful to me) however, there are a lot of new younger members here, who are very special people, along with a lot of others who are "older" lol. I am blessed to have them as friends, and I'm not shy in letting them know! (y)

Regards,
Kim

Merry
08-06-2007, 10:24 PM
Thank you Conor and KPM for sharing your posts, sad but interesting to read. My father died at the age of 44 of sudden cardiac death in his sleep, he never had a heart problem before and his "drugs" were cigarettes, coffee and stress. So I am inclined to accept Elvis could have died of a heart desease. And if not, I don't judge or accuse him of anything.
To EFriend - whose posts have disappeared - I think this here is TCB World, where Elvis fans meet, it might be possible that somebody talks about Elvis;) and if you want to care about your fellow men or to donate to flood victims you can do it. For my part I think that there's no need to always show off with our good deeds.



Hiya Miss Clawdy, :)

I'm so sorry to hear about your father, I truely am.

However, what you refer to, wasn't what was said in the context of your reply, you misunderstood.

With all due respect, there ISN'T enough care in the world, because our priorities, generally and broadly speaking, as human beings, s*ck. How many people walk past others and do nothing?

We are fighting too much, that was the context, of the comment, which was wise, said with empathy and compassion.
The comment, was saying "hey folks, wake up, look at the bigger picture".

People should speak up when there are injustices, people should also speak up and share the bigger picture, to put things back into prospective, and to stop the arguing and negativity and think about what is important - our fellow man, making him feel loved and welcomed.:hug:


There is a lot to learn from people who share this message, remember Elvis? What would he say? :clap: :hug: Yes, this is an Elvis board, why don't we take on his message?

Remember "walk in another man's shoes......"?

Take care,

Kim

P.S. I am very guilty of fighting, which is wrong, but I too, just get sooo frustrated, so I am taking heed of this well meaning advice :supriced:

Donut
08-07-2007, 07:59 AM
My son picked me up a book at a flea market called "Elvis Up Close-In the words of those who knew him best" It had comments about Elvis and his life from 150 people who had known Elvis since Tupelo.

Is that the same book written by Rose Clyton and Dick Heard "Elvis by those who knew him best"?

jak
08-07-2007, 08:25 AM
That's one fine looking Guinea you got there Donut!!

Miss Clawdy
08-07-2007, 08:33 AM
Hiya Miss Clawdy, :)

I'm so sorry to hear about your father, I truely am.

However, what you refer to, wasn't what was said in the context of your reply, you misunderstood.

With all due respect, there ISN'T enough care in the world, because our priorities, generally and broadly speaking, as human beings, s*ck. How many people walk past others and do nothing?

We are fighting too much, that was the context, of the comment, which was wise, said with empathy and compassion.
The comment, was saying "hey folks, wake up, look at the bigger picture".

People should speak up when there are injustices, people should also speak up and share the bigger picture, to put things back into prospective, and to stop the arguing and negativity and think about what is important - our fellow man, making him feel loved and welcomed.:hug:


There is a lot to learn from people who share this message, remember Elvis? What would he say? :clap: :hug: Yes, this is an Elvis board, why don't we take on his message?

Remember "walk in another man's shoes......"?

Take care,

Kim

P.S. I am very guilty of fighting, which is wrong, but I too, just get sooo frustrated, so I am taking heed of this well meaning advice :supriced:


Kim,
thank you for your kind words.
It's quite possible that I misunderstand something that has been written, as you know that english is not my first language. And it's even more probable that I express something in a mistakable way, I apologize for that.

Believe me I know about the lack of care in the world and I agree with you therein. But I don't know what EFriend's post has to do with Elvis or with what Conor has said in his post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EFriend View Post
This should settle it, it's over. Now if people would put their energy in the important things in life.
By this I mean, who is dead, who is alive and how you spend so much energy in finding this out.
People are dying every day because of starvation, disease, etc. Peopel are put out of their homes by
disasters. We should help one another. No one is better than any other. The greatest gift is to help
yuor fellow brother/sister in need. The things you argue about are meaningless. It's life you need to
be concerned with. When you are dead it is too late. It's a wonderful feeling to help someone. Put
yourself in their shoes. Help someone feel good and feel good yourself. Stop the arguing. Millions
without homes because of flooding. Whether you you believe it or not these are your brothers and sisters. We are all in this together. Care for your fellow man and stop worrying about senselesss things like who took what drugs and are they alive. Ok, I said what I wanted to say. I'll leave you alone. Please just think about it.

Adios,
Take care and God Bless

He tells us that we all are occupied with irrelevant meaningless nonsense instead of taking care of our brothers and sisters in need....
We could start to philosophize on what is important and meaningful in life...that's why I said this is an Elvis site.
I love Elvis the man, his music, how he was, I don't have a problem with anything he did even if there were many sad things too, I can't see anything negative if we are talking about his prescprition drugs addiction, he had his reasons why he took them although I don't think he needed them.

The comment, was saying "hey folks, wake up, look at the bigger picture".

Why do I have to say this after reading a post which tells me that Elvis might have died a natural death???
Finally I don't think we are fighting, we are all expressing our opinions ;).

Elvis_Priestly
08-07-2007, 08:35 AM
Huh? Really I have no idea what you Efriend and Jess are talking about and how it possibly has any relevance to the topic.

Jess really:

You are as polite as can be, in the context.



With all due respect Diane, this place is pretty darn disrespectful to Elvis. Some, are more interested in "conversations", than care.
That is being disrespectful to Elvis, who Elvis was, and believed in, and uncalled for, in my opinion.

Polite? Respectful?


Oh Conor, did you know that "Elvis" didn't like to wear underwear because he sweated so much in his crotch that he would get blisters on the insides of his legs.

What in the name of all that's decent and respectful has that got to do with anything?

And whats all that nonsense about "father"? I've never ever asked, let alone expected, anyone here to call me "father." Some do and some don't and it's entirely their choice. I'm here to discuss Elvis, and when I need or want lessons in "caring" etc. etc. I'll go to a priest's forum.


People should speak up when there are injustices, people should also speak up and share the bigger picture, to put things back into prospective, and to stop the arguing and negativity and think about what is important - our fellow man, making him feel loved and welcomed.


Well cheers, read my first post for this topic and maybe see that's exactly what I was doing and suggesting we all do. As far as arguing and negativity are concerned there are only two who have engaged in that in this thread and that's yourself Jess and Efriend, for absolutely no reason whatsoever, and if you've both had reason I wish you'd tell us what it is.

As for Efriend, it takes more than a date of birth in a profile and "knowing" mysterious comments to make (most) people think you're Elvis. Why not try something he was renowned for and still remembered for by his fans who mourn his passing - wit, intelligence and good manners.


There is a lot to learn from people who share this message, remember Elvis? What would he say?

If he was still alive probably, "Sheesh, not another one!"

KPM
08-07-2007, 12:03 PM
Is that the same book written by Rose Clyton and Dick Heard "Elvis by those who knew him best"?
Yes its by Rose Clayton and Dick Heard published in 94.

Jumpsuit Junkie
08-07-2007, 12:45 PM
I have indeed read you first initial post and agree people have already made their mind up regarding how Elvis died! There is a general mind set that Elvis died of an overdouse..... I do not believe this is the case. Elvis did indeed have ailments that required the necessity to take prescribed medication, however I also believe that some of the ailments to which Elvis suffered were brought on or were contributed to by taking medication that was used for therapeutic purposes.

I would like to apologise for the behaver of those who:-
a) Did not read your post or
b) Simply did not understand the content

I agree there are those who participate on this message board who are quick to judge!

srj1967
08-07-2007, 01:14 PM
Elvis did indeed have ailments that required the necessity to take prescribed medication, however I also believe that some of the ailments to which Elvis suffered were brought on or were contributed to by taking medication that was used for therapeutic purposes.


Precisely.

Elvis died of a heart attack, the major contributing factor of which was polypharmacy.

End ... of ... STORY!

Donut
08-07-2007, 01:36 PM
Yes its by Rose Clayton and Dick Heard published in 94.

OK, thank you. That?s a good read indeed, read it twice time ago.

KPM
08-07-2007, 01:42 PM
Precisely.

Elvis died of a heart attack, the major contributing factor of which was polypharmacy.

End ... of ... STORY!
I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. As I have posted before there is not a universal agreement among the original people involved that polypharmcy is what caused the attack. The independent labs who have reviewed the toxicology reports could not agree from what I have read. Also this review of these reports done in 94 which (Conor mentions in his original post) says it was not polypharmacy. This review was done by a top man in this field as Conor points out. The Doctors quoted in the book "Elvis Up Close" who also reviewed the reports said it was not polypharmacy. They gave compelling medical reasons as to why it could not be. So for me its not the end of story. If it is for you thats fine, you see it as you see it. But respectifully we'll have agree to disagree.

franny
08-07-2007, 02:06 PM
Jess, why are you saying Dearest Franny?? I'm not on this thread!

franny