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View Full Version : Ernst and RCA do it to us again



EP75
06-17-2007, 12:24 PM
This is exactly why I and other wise fanse no longer purchase RCA mainstream releases. Same ole bullsh!t. Great Job Ernst. You and the company managed to screw us over again.

Here is the track listing of the BMG release ?Viva Las Vegas?. This single disc release contains previously released performances. All tracks, except "Viva Las Vegas" are live performances. A second disc with an unreleased 1969 concert was rumored, but is not part of the set. Ernst Jorgensen confirmed the track listing to us. The US street date is July 31, 2007.

Track listing:

Viva Las Vegas \ C C Rider \ The Wonder Of You \ Polk Salad Annie \ Release Me \ Let It Be Me \ I Just Can't Help Believin' \ Walk A Mile In My Shoes \ Bridge Over Troubled Water \ Patch It Up \ You Don't Have To Say You Love Me \ You've Lost That Loving Feeling \ An American Trilogy \ Never Been To Spain \ You Gave Me A Mountain \ The Impossible DreamSource: Ernst J?rgensen / Updated: Jun 17, 2007

Let's see those Enrst supporters back him now and say he's great for EP's image.(n)

dennyelvis
06-17-2007, 02:35 PM
So whats the idea of mixing viva with live trax anyway ? ... get back on track Ernst ... shame on you !!!!!

King_Creole
06-17-2007, 07:14 PM
The upcoming BMG disc is NOTHING for members of this forum to complain about. It's not geared for our collections.

It is a simple retail overview of the Las Vegas years, and certain to draw a number of first-time, casual buyers on the strength and notoriety of Pomus-Shuman's "Viva Las Vegas."

BMG is in the business of selling product.

It's not a coincidence that this CD is being issued at the same time as the deluxe DVD edition of the 1964 Presley classic and the 1970 documentary Elvis-That's The Way It Is.

jbnva
06-17-2007, 07:39 PM
I believe that this release is to promote the ABC TV special in Sept.And KC,youre right,it is not aimed at the hard core fans,but to the general public.

EP75
06-17-2007, 08:33 PM
It may not be aimed at the usual fans who buy everything they put out. But who will actually be buying it? The usual fans who buy everything.(n)

jbnva
06-17-2007, 10:04 PM
Well,you also have a point,EP75.There are far too many releases out there,and this will probably be another ho-hum effort,BMG trying to get the last dollar they can.
Why dont they just promote the Las Vegas CDs that are already available,which are of higher quality than anything the bosses at BMG will put out now?

King_Creole
06-17-2007, 10:30 PM
Some people really need to step back and see the bigger picture on these issues, then the FTD process makes a lot more sense. :D

elvis himselvis
06-18-2007, 07:31 AM
They could have released a live version of Viva Las Vegas...Elvis performed this song in 1969 in Las Vegas

EP75
06-18-2007, 10:44 AM
Well,you also have a point,EP75.There are far too many releases out there,and this will probably be another ho-hum effort,BMG trying to get the last dollar they can.
Why dont they just promote the Las Vegas CDs that are already available,which are of higher quality than anything the bosses at BMG will put out now?

This is exactly why I strongly believe that something is definitely up concerning the catalog's future. If you are a real record company wanting to invest on an artist who is a bestseller, then you put out QUALITY releases with marketing value. You don;t just pick songs and put them on a release and expect them to sell. Unfortunately there are a lot of dumb naive people out there that buy into RCA's ways of marketing and selling EP.

There is also more to this than is being talked about. RCA is currently in a bine with many of its top artist wanting to leave for other labels. Could EP be one of those artist relocating in the near future? Only if someone with deep pockets such as Mr Sillerman himself has anything to say about it. He could possibly file a lawsuit against RCA demanding the music rights and catalog to be sold to him and claim that the company does not profit enough to maintain structural control over it. There are loopholes that could get EP's catalog removed from the label and relocated.

If you read between the lines. RCA is saying by releasing all of the latest nonsense of releases as "hmm, well we obviously are going to lose Elvis as our top selling artist so we might as well just package as many mainstream commercial releases we can while at the same time spending the least amount that we can in producing and marketing. that way we make more than we lose in the long run". That has to be what they are doing because the current state of mind by RCA shows that something is indeed in the works for the catalog that is being kept tight lipped. And I don't think RCA will be connected to it's future much longer.(y)

Sonny
06-18-2007, 12:16 PM
The US/Canada edition is a 1 disc release I guess. The rest of the world will get the double cd.

Sonny

KPM
06-18-2007, 12:59 PM
They could have released a live version of Viva Las Vegas...Elvis performed this song in 1969 in Las Vegas
Is this the whole song or a couple lines? I have never seen this listed anywhere as a live recording it would be interesting to hear if its the whole song.

Suspicious Minds
06-18-2007, 01:13 PM
Do you guys ever watch the Elvis news?;)
http://www.elvisnews.com/Presentation/Functional/Page/news.aspx?command=show&item=9290

Tracks CD 2:

1) Blue Suede Shoes
2) I Got A Woman
3) All Shook Up
4) Love Me Tender
5) Jailhouse Rock/ Don't Be Cruel
6) Heartbreak Hotel
7) Hound Dog
8) Memories
9) Mystery Train/ Tiger Man
10) Monologue/ Lifestory
11) Baby What You Want Me To Do
12) Runaway
13) Are You Lonesome Tonight?
14) Yesterday/ Hey Jude
15) Introductions
16) In The Ghetto
17) Suspicious Minds
18) What'd I Say
19) Can't Help Falling In Love

A previously unreleased Elvis concert-recorded in Las Vegas, August 1969 (date not yet given)


How come Johnny B Goode is left out again? It was on the Elvis In Person album the first time.

EP75
06-18-2007, 02:16 PM
The only way this release would be any use of releasing or purchasing is if ALL the tracks have been enhanced and remixed a la Aloha From Hawaii was back in 1998. That's the only way I would buy it. Otheriwse it is the same ole poorly edited and rough mixes by ferrente and a waste of hard working earned money.:angry: (n)

KPM
06-18-2007, 03:13 PM
How come Johnny B Goode is left out again? It was on the Elvis In Person album the first time.

If I read this right this is not a reissue of the Elvis in Person, but another unreleased full concert from the August 69 engagement at the International.
So the set list would not be the same. My Babe was also on the Elvis in Person (Memphis to Vegas, Vegas to Memphis) album but its not listed here.

King_Creole
06-18-2007, 09:58 PM
Unfortunately there are a lot of dumb naive people out there that buy into RCA's ways of marketing and selling EP.


The ignorance and arrogant tone of this character's reply never ceases to amaze me.



Could EP be one of those artist relocating in the near future?

Last I heard, Elvis was dead ! ;)


If you read between the lines. RCA is saying by releasing all of the latest nonsense of releases as "hmm, well we obviously are going to lose Elvis as our top selling artist so we might as well just package as many mainstream commercial releases we can while at the same time spending the least amount that we can in producing and marketing.

Trying to read this incoherent and run on sentence was hard enuff, but your views on this subject are misguided and misplaced.

There are thousands upon thousands of people who discover Elvis Presley's music everyday, and these releases will find an audience to help spread the love and magic of Elvis forever.

Elvis Presley left an incredible wealth of a magical musical legacy and his ever loving and enduring fan base is amongst the most loyal in the world. There are fans out there worldwide who collect every release they can find for their beloved collections. They are called "Collectors". Is that so hard to comprhend ?

As I have previously stated, Sony/BMG is a business and they are in the business to make a profit, they owe you and me nothing. And no matter how hard or how much money is involved, they own the rights to Elvis' catalog and they will never let it go. You really should get out more ... :P


And I don't think RCA will be connected to it's future much longer.(y)

And you have proof that you know this is true ? puh-leeze ...

EP75
06-18-2007, 10:20 PM
The ignorance and arrogant tone of this character's reply never ceases to amaze me.




Last I heard, Elvis was dead ! ;)



Trying to read this incoherent and run on sentence was hard enuff, but your views on this subject are misguided and misplaced.

There are thousands upon thousands of people who discover Elvis Presley's music everyday, and these releases will find an audience to help spread the love and magic of Elvis forever.

Elvis Presley left an incredible wealth of a magical musical legacy and his ever loving and enduring fan base is amongst the most loyal in the world. There are fans out there worldwide who collect every release they can find for their beloved collections. They are called "Collectors". Is that so hard to comprhend ?

As I have previously stated, Sony/BMG is a business and they are in the business to make a profit, they owe you and me nothing. And no matter how hard or how much money is involved, they own the rights to Elvis' catalog and they will never let it go. You really should get out more ... :P



And you have proof that you know this is true ? puh-leeze ...

The troll is back.:mad:

King_Creole
06-19-2007, 12:00 AM
Wow ...

What a lucid, intelligent, mature reply EP75 ...

Fleetfoot
06-19-2007, 02:16 AM
Replying to foolish stuff says a lot about the poster.......:blush:

The more Elvis material in the shops the better. Tupelo's Own is openly displayed at our HMV shop. Yes I have it to enjoy.

jbnva
06-20-2007, 10:56 PM
All one has to do is compare the release strategy BMG uses for Elvis vs. EMIs strategy for The Beatles.By contrast,EMIs compilations are few and far between,well thought out,usually spaced apart 2 or 3 years,and show a respect for their artistry.BMG seems willing to put 2 or 3 comps a year,ho hum efforts that only detract from the original releases(who knows,if there were only 30 CDs available in the general marketplace,maybe Elvis Country and Elvis Is Back would still be available).The latest movie comp is a perfect example.These songs have been re packaged so many times,to little effect in the marketplace,that it seems BMG has a fetish about them.Along with the usual country/christmas/hits/love songs compilations,it should nestle right in with the other losers that have been released over the last 10 years or so.

KPM
06-21-2007, 02:09 PM
Unfortunately (or fortunately if you are a Beatle fan) the Beatles have a lot more totally unreleased music left behind. Elvis it seems did not leave a vast quantity of true unreleased songs. IMO I'm afraid we are destined to many years of re-releases, alternate takes, and soundboards. The few items they have of unreleased material (if any) will be parceled out sparingly. They can not produce it for us if they just don't have it. But I wish the reissues would be more along the lines of the production, promotional care, and quality of the 30#1s release.

Jumpsuit Junkie
06-22-2007, 04:10 AM
All one has to do is compare the release strategy BMG uses for Elvis vs. EMIs strategy for The Beatles.By contrast,EMIs compilations are few and far between,well thought out,usually spaced apart 2 or 3 years,and show a respect for their artistry.BMG seems willing to put 2 or 3 comps a year,ho hum efforts that only detract from the original releases(who knows,if there were only 30 CDs available in the general marketplace,maybe Elvis Country and Elvis Is Back would still be available).The latest movie comp is a perfect example.These songs have been re packaged so many times,to little effect in the marketplace,that it seems BMG has a fetish about them.Along with the usual country/christmas/hits/love songs compilations,it should nestle right in with the other losers that have been released over the last 10 years or so.

The above comment sums it up for me. There is too little concern for how Elvis is mass produced to the wider world. re-releases of the same material just gets boring and does little to strengthen Elvis as a serious artist! However there must be a market out there otherwise they would not continue to follow this process!

I just wish that they would consider the collector now and again (I know we have FTD) and do some up market releases that will inspire me to part me with my hard earned cash :hmm:

jbnva
06-22-2007, 09:57 AM
When FTD was started,it was supposed to relieve the stress put on the catologue,ie take the alt. take releases out of the mainstream,yet still be available for the fans that wanted them.Good idea,too bad BMG didnt stick to it.
In 2002,woth the release of E1,BMG said that it was going to pare the cat. down to 50 pieces,and would delete a title when a new one was released.
Guess what?
I am aware that known of us are forced to buy the comps,and there are many fans who rush out to buy them.A BMG insider told me once that ANY release on Elvis is guarenteed to sell at least 100,000 copies.Since BMG,for the most part,doesnt have to pay royalties to the estate(most of the songs used were recorded before 1973)the profit on even a small number like 100,000 is probably quite large.
Almost everyone comes out a winner in this.The fans that like a new release every few months,the estate,which I understand charges a fee for the use of Elvis'photos used by BMG,and also peddles the CDs on their web site,and of course BMG.The only loser Is the legacy of Elvis Presley.

KPM
06-22-2007, 04:34 PM
The selling of Elvis's catalogue up to 1973 haunts his legacy. If they indeed had to pay royalties to the estate for all these cheaply done re-issues perhaps the small sales would not be so profitable and would force them to be much more selective, more upscale. But they can make a mint for selling very few and with little or no promotion.
This also hurts Elvis's total sales figures- they call it a new release change the name, vary the songs and it sells, lets say, 100,000. It does not get gold status and it is not included in RIAAs album sales for Elvis. But it is basically selling the same music. Since most have a new title and song list it does not count toward any existing title (Many of which may be near going gold, or upgraded to platinum, or multi-platinum) So they basically sell the same music, make a big profit and Elvis gets very little positive gain. I saw somewhere a graph which estimated what Elvis's total album sale might be when you include all the re-issues and repackages since he died (the ones which sell 100,000 or more) and it pushed his total way above what it is listed as now on RIAA site.

jak
06-22-2007, 04:39 PM
I cant blame them for their strategy.It's the compliation stuff that sells along with the rehashed stuff.The general public doesnt care about live shows or unreleased takes.They really dont and many casual fans dont either.Dont forget that after 30 years of posthumous releases you dont have lots to work with.All you have is the same material to basically keep repackaging over and over.
Jak

KPM
06-22-2007, 04:53 PM
No you can't blame them from a business point of view, low overhead- high return- thats the heart of profit. Lets face it they are not truely into the "ELVIS LEGACY" other than profit and loss. In an earlier post I pointed out that the Beatles left behind much more totally unreleased music, they spent much more time on recording than Elvis so its much easier to put out new product. But 30#1s showed what could be done with a much more indepth planning, production and promotion. It probably did more to promote Elvis and his music than the last 40 cheap no promotion re-issues. But it is true low overhead-high return.

T_J
06-23-2007, 08:46 AM
I cant blame them for their strategy.It's the compliation stuff that sells along with the rehashed stuff.The general public doesnt care about live shows or unreleased takes.They really dont and many casual fans dont either.Dont forget that after 30 years of posthumous releases you dont have lots to work with.All you have is the same material to basically keep repackaging over and over.
Jak


Exactly. Besides, how often do fans complain about yet another greatest hits compilation? At least the Vegas theme is a different approach with songs that do not feature on most compilations. And as someone has already said, there will be cross promotion with an upcoming television special, so it makes perfect sense.

When I read the line "Ernst has screwed us again", I get quite annoyed. Anyone would think the only material Ernst has been responsible for are rehashes of greatest hits and christmas/gospel compilations. Thanks to Ernst, we have the FTD label which has provided us with 60 CD's worth of rare studio outtakes and live performances, as well as several box sets in recent years full of unreleased material. Elvis has been dead 30 years and still we get several CDs a year of unreleased material thanks largely to Ernst. How absurd and disingenuous to ignore all that and only mention the compilations.

KPM
06-23-2007, 05:57 PM
I think Ernst is doing the best he can with what he has to work with and the constraints put upon him from BMG. The 50s, 60s, and 70s box sets were excellent. Its the poorly produced reissues that bother me.
In 1999 the total for reissues for his records was about 220 in the US alone. Many more have come since 99-worldwide who knows how many. If the track listing have added bonus takes its considered a new album. So if "Pot Luck" for example has tracks added -the sales do not go to that albums running total. A new total for that "new" album is started.
Doesn't seem right.
I made a point about how these many reissues with new names and numbers affect Elvis's total album sales. For example, we all know that until "30#1s" came along, Elvis's officially recognized biggest album was "Elvis's Christmas Album" with official sales around 8 million. We know there were only so many Christmas songs on a couple albums till Elvis died. Now every year they have a new compilation with new cover & different track listings. (last year there were 3 of different covers and tracks and cost that I saw) They sold pretty well during the season, but they did not count toward his total sales for the original album. He may have sold a million during this Christmas between the 3 cds but it counts for nothing at RIAA. Its the same music from his 2 original X-mas releases but unless the original "recognized by RIAA criteria" albums are bought- his total gets no credit. I want to see Elvis get a "Diamond Record Award". In the US The original X-mas album is his best bet in the near future. But it will be slow going if they keep adding a new cover and changing the track listing-taking sales numbers away from the original. If his estate can not get royalties, at least he should get credit toward his total sales.
Also perhaps the RIAA needs to revamp its rules and criteria since the way records are marketed- with all these added alternate tracks and takes. It is not fair if its basically the same music.

Jumpsuit Junkie
06-23-2007, 06:18 PM
FTD do give us new material, for an artist gone nearly 30 years that is a monumental task! the problem for the collector is that there is very little to be gained by BMG digitally re mastering a few tracks on a CD release and calling it new, they need to stop pissing about and think more creatively. My money does not come easy and if BMG think by just shoving some remastered little known track on a CD is going to peak my curiosity they are seriously mistaken.

I don't want to speak out of turn because Ernst has given us some good material in the past but.... I think we have past the point where any serious gems are going to be released, it's a question of sound quality and perhaps the occasional remix which will peak my interest.

KPM
06-23-2007, 08:04 PM
FTD do give us new material, for an artist gone nearly 30 years that is a monumental task! the problem for the collector is that there is very little to be gained by BMG digitally re mastering a few tracks on a CD release and calling it new, they need to stop pissing about and think more creatively. My money does not come easy and if BMG think by just shoving some remastered little known track on a CD is going to peak my curiosity they are seriously mistaken.

I don't want to speak out of turn because Ernst has given us some good material in the past but.... I think we have past the point where any serious gems are going to be released, it's a question of sound quality and perhaps the occasional remix which will peak my interest.

I have to agree creative thinking seems needed. Maybe some newer blood involved in the process might be good. Ernst at times in interviews seems a little tired himself of the whole process. I mean anything new is going to get harder and harder to come by so creative thinking and input is going to be much more important in the future.