FTD/imports

[pete dube]

Personally, I have no problem whatsoever if FTD should release some of the classic import titles. My line of reasoning is as follows:

1.) Not everybody has easy access to imports. Release on FTD would make these import titles readily available to those who don't have them.

2.) FTD was initially created to deflect business away from the import market, so releasing popular import titles is perfectly in keeping with FTD's stated goals.

3.) Affordability. Imports can be pricey.

4.) FTD releases would be lawful releases. No matter how great an import is they're still illegal.

5.) Royalty payments. Import labels don't pay royalties, FTD releases would ensure that the musicians get paid.

Now I know some will say "I don't want to buy a second time what I already have." My answer to that is don't buy it. It's no different from FTD putting out a cd that you're simply not crazy about. Just don't buy it.

If FTD does go down this path then I hope that they will pay particular attention to sound quality issues. There is simply no reason for the New Years Eve FTD or Where No One Stands Alone to sound inferior to the import versions. Ernst's answers to the questions/complaints about the inferior sound of these was unsatisfactory. There needs to be better quality control.

[Lonniebealestreet]

I highly agree and IMO if attention to sound quality were given, a number of collectors would in fact be willing to re-purchase these releases on the FTD label...if not entirely happy about it. :lol:

Not to imply that should be the target audience; I agree the main objective here should be to cater to those who did not have access to or did not want to delve into the bootleg market.

I seem to recall that in one of Ernst's initial statements about the FTD label he claimed that its releases would not be determined by the bootleg market, but for the most part releases seem to have been chosen with respect given to what has been previously released on import labels in that a lot of such material has been avoided by FTD. Well, at least it seems that with a handful of options in their catalogue, the one they most often opt for is the concert not previously bootlegged. And that makes sense.

But now that we have a lot of hidden gems represented by the label, it might be wise to reconsider some of the shows or sessions that have previously been passed on because they have been released on an import label. As suggested, they should first consider some of the fan favorites like DAE's From Sunset Boulevard to Paradise Road. (y)

[poormansgold]

I have no problem pay them, it's THe Cost That hurts someone liked me that are on fixes income, I got Few FTD Releases at start of FTD releases in 1998.
after they rise cost, I stop buy it Them.
If Right stuff was I will buy It used .

[thehillbillycat]

FTD is not truely deflecting fans away from the import market. The import market is somewhat cheaper than the import market. They will not totally get rid of the import market at all until they lower there prices. Until they do that the import market will be out doing the FTD releases. They are also releasing a few at a time. Import market releases many during a year time. FTD are a little more expensive than most of the imports. It depends on the CD. Some imports can be as cheap as 10 dollars. So FTD and Imports are really about the same price.

As for Imports being illegal. As long as they are not CD-R and they are real cd. You can sell them in a store and the police can't touch you because you are selling a cd the comes from another country. Now if you sel copies of them then you are doing something illegal. So imports aren't really illegal. I have seen with my own eyes some of the imports at FYE. They don't except CD-Rs, they except real cds. When it is from another country then it say on the label that contains the price the name of the album and says under that IMPORT.

[jak]

FTD is not truely deflecting fans away from the import market. The import market is somewhat cheaper than the import market. They will not totally get rid of the import market at all until they lower there prices. Until they do that the import market will be out doing the FTD releases. They are also releasing a few at a time. Import market releases many during a year time. FTD are a little more expensive than most of the imports. It depends on the CD. Some imports can be as cheap as 10 dollars. So FTD and Imports are really about the same price.

As for Imports being illegal. As long as they are not CD-R and they are real cd. You can sell them in a store and the police can't touch you because you are selling a cd the comes from another country. Now if you sel copies of them then you are doing something illegal. So imports aren't really illegal. I have seen with my own eyes some of the imports at FYE. They don't except CD-Rs, they except real cds. When it is from another country then it say on the label that contains the price the name of the album and says under that IMPORT.

Youre missing the point I think.The imports being mentioned are bootlegs.Originals are factory pressed and they are illegal.No royalties are paid to the artists.The reason the boots come from other countries outside the US is that it;s harder to carck down on them.
Jak

[poormansgold]

THe Cost For FTD Is 32.95 In USA that's high

[Rich_TCB]

Personally, I have no problem whatsoever if FTD should release some of the classic import titles. My line of reasoning is as follows:

1.) Not everybody has easy access to imports. Release on FTD would make these import titles readily available to those who don't have them.

2.) FTD was initially created to deflect business away from the import market, so releasing popular import titles is perfectly in keeping with FTD's stated goals.

3.) Affordability. Imports can be pricey.

4.) FTD releases would be lawful releases. No matter how great an import is they're still illegal.

5.) Royalty payments. Import labels don't pay royalties, FTD releases would ensure that the musicians get paid.

Now I know some will say "I don't want to buy a second time what I already have." My answer to that is don't buy it. It's no different from FTD putting out a cd that you're simply not crazy about. Just don't buy it.

If FTD does go down this path then I hope that they will pay particular attention to sound quality issues. There is simply no reason for the New Years Eve FTD or Where No One Stands Alone to sound inferior to the import versions. Ernst's answers to the questions/complaints about the inferior sound of these was unsatisfactory. There needs to be better quality control.

Totally agree with you, Pete.

It does seem that Ernst will be willing to release the bootlegged shows on FTD. It's just a shame that you'll have to purchase a boxset, to get those shows. But I guess it's better than nothing.

Rich

[thehillbillycat]

Youre missing the point I think.The imports being mentioned are bootlegs.Originals are factory pressed and they are illegal.No royalties are paid to the artists.The reason the boots come from other countries outside the US is that it;s harder to carck down on them.
Jak


Yes, you are right that the imports that is release that no royalites doesn't pay the artists. But you need to remember that other countries has different laws than the US does. Some countries doesn't have to have permission to release music of a certain artist. You can buy a import cd and the US law can't do anything to you. You can sell that import cd and the law can't touch you either. No offence, but research the laws in other countries and compare them to the US and see what you come up with. You will see that RCA can't do anything to Fort Baxter, Luxor, Madison, etc. But those companies are in other countries. There address are even on some of the cds that you have if you look closely. RCA knows where those companies are at but they can't do anything about it. So that is why FTD came about. So that it can take people eyes off the import companies. FTD is a good idea but with high prices on the cds and only releasing them to hardcore fans, the company isn't going to bring the import comanies down at all.

[jak]

I believe the idea that bootleggers have a free hand overseas is incorrect.I seem to recall several big "busts" in years past.Anything with a studio outtake would be considered stolen property I think.
Jak

[thehillbillycat]

I am not referring to the CD-Rs that is out there. Fort Baxter, Madison, etc. are not CD-Rs they are real cds. You can't buy cds that is true silver on the bottom. If you look those doesn't have a greenish color on the bottom. CD-Rs does contains a greenish color on the bottom. It is the same as DVDs, yuo will not buy any DVDs that is silver on the bottom at all. Call any place that sells DVD-Rs and CD-Rs and see what they say. They will tell you that they only sell them to the manufactured the copyrighted CD or DVD only. So if you have 50 real cds of Fort Baxters no CD-Rs you can sell them and no one can touch you at all. If they are CD-Rs then that is another story.

[Juan Luis]

Personally, I have no problem whatsoever if FTD should release some of the classic import titles. My line of reasoning is as follows:

1.) Not everybody has easy access to imports. Release on FTD would make these import titles readily available to those who don't have them.

2.) FTD was initially created to deflect business away from the import market, so releasing popular import titles is perfectly in keeping with FTD's stated goals.

3.) Affordability. Imports can be pricey.

4.) FTD releases would be lawful releases. No matter how great an import is they're still illegal.

5.) Royalty payments. Import labels don't pay royalties, FTD releases would ensure that the musicians get paid.

Now I know some will say "I don't want to buy a second time what I already have." My answer to that is don't buy it. It's no different from FTD putting out a cd that you're simply not crazy about. Just don't buy it.

If FTD does go down this path then I hope that they will pay particular attention to sound quality issues. There is simply no reason for the New Years Eve FTD or Where No One Stands Alone to sound inferior to the import versions. Ernst's answers to the questions/complaints about the inferior sound of these was unsatisfactory. There needs to be better quality control. I am with you 1000%!!

[jak]

I am not referring to the CD-Rs that is out there. Fort Baxter, Madison, etc. are not CD-Rs they are real cds. You can't buy cds that is true silver on the bottom. If you look those doesn't have a greenish color on the bottom. CD-Rs does contains a greenish color on the bottom. It is the same as DVDs, yuo will not buy any DVDs that is silver on the bottom at all. Call any place that sells DVD-Rs and CD-Rs and see what they say. They will tell you that they only sell them to the manufactured the copyrighted CD or DVD only. So if you have 50 real cds of Fort Baxters no CD-Rs you can sell them and no one can touch you at all. If they are CD-Rs then that is another story.

How can it be legal in any form to release stolen material?There were some big raids some time ago on the bootleggers overseas.I dont think they are immune.
Jak

[thehillbillycat]

Most of the stuff of soundboards aren't stolen material at all. I can show you a book that contains a auction that EPE gave. In that auction EPE sold many soundboard of Elvis shows. It says in the book that they copied these are there collection and selling the original tapes. Some went as high as $100,000. Many people bought them and started releasing them over a period of time to companies. So they owned those tapes. You can truely that they aren't bootlegs but unauthorized material. Unauthorized is not authorized by anyone and clearly states that on the VHS or DVD. There is countless of unauthorized material here in the US and they don't get in trouble at all. So it is the same way as the some of the soundboards shows. They are unauthorized and some of those shows was bought by overseas comapnies or Elvis fans themselves and let companies borrow them for a sum of money. As for audience recordings, they too are illegal but the tapes are owned by the person who recorded them. They can let anyone borrow them. Same goes for 8mm film footage. The footage is owned by the person who shot the footage.
Now, EPE didn't sell all the soundboards that is release on the market today. That I can say truely, they only sold a few of them. I know that during the auctions that they didn't sell September 2, 1974 (Desert Storm) or any of the ones that is release on the set Profile Volume 1 and 2. There is many more that they didn't sell but some they did. I know someone who has the soundboard of Hollywood, FL 1977 in their possessions. Now it is not release. He bought this tape in a estate sale when a lady needed some money for taxes. Well, the lot of reel to reel tapes listed each one and the last one on the list was Elvis in Hollywood, FL. It says that this was Elvis' first show in 1977 and that this tape was a soundboard of that show. It says that it isn't the complete show and begins with If You Love Me (Let Me Know). If this was a soundboard of this show, how did she get it? Well, supposely she was friends with Vernon and he gave her the tape because she went to that show.

[poormansgold]

You Are right Elvislennon2004, went Col Tom Parker Die The EPE got All Stuf He had Tape For Him Only. The EPE had right Sale thoses Soundboards Tapes that Time, after 1982 court battle with RCA, EPE lost some Rights Of Elvis Music or intviews of Elvis.
The RCA have All Rights To his Music.
I hear That One worker At EPE Was behind Of Fort Baxters Label

[thehillbillycat]

You Are right Elvislennon2004, went Col Tom Parker Die The EPE got All Stuf He had Tape For Him Only. The EPE had right Sale thoses Soundboards Tapes that Time, after 1982 court battle with RCA, EPE lost some Rights Of Elvis Music or intviews of Elvis.
The RCA have All Rights To his Music.
I hear That One worker At EPE Was behind Of Fort Baxters Label


That is very true. A worker that was part of the EPE was behind Fort Baxter. He bought some soundboard tapes but turn around and took some other tapes. He made plenty of money on those tapes.

[Juan Luis]

Most of the stuff of soundboards aren't stolen material at all. I can show you a book that contains a auction that EPE gave. In that auction EPE sold many soundboard of Elvis shows. It says in the book that they copied these are there collection and selling the original tapes. Some went as high as $100,000. Many people bought them and started releasing them over a period of time to companies. So they owned those tapes. You can truely that they aren't bootlegs but unauthorized material. Unauthorized is not authorized by anyone and clearly states that on the VHS or DVD. There is countless of unauthorized material here in the US and they don't get in trouble at all. So it is the same way as the some of the soundboards shows. They are unauthorized and some of those shows was bought by overseas comapnies or Elvis fans themselves and let companies borrow them for a sum of money. As for audience recordings, they too are illegal but the tapes are owned by the person who recorded them. They can let anyone borrow them. Same goes for 8mm film footage. The footage is owned by the person who shot the footage.
Now, EPE didn't sell all the soundboards that is release on the market today. That I can say truely, they only sold a few of them. I know that during the auctions that they didn't sell September 2, 1974 (Desert Storm) or any of the ones that is release on the set Profile Volume 1 and 2. There is many more that they didn't sell but some they did. I know someone who has the soundboard of Hollywood, FL 1977 in their possessions. Now it is not release. He bought this tape in a estate sale when a lady needed some money for taxes. Well, the lot of reel to reel tapes listed each one and the last one on the list was Elvis in Hollywood, FL. It says that this was Elvis' first show in 1977 and that this tape was a soundboard of that show. It says that it isn't the complete show and begins with If You Love Me (Let Me Know). If this was a soundboard of this show, how did she get it? Well, supposely she was friends with Vernon and he gave her the tape because she went to that show.
Please give me more info PM if you wish..I went to that FEB12 77 show....Thanks.

[thehillbillycat]

Well, I bought me a DVD copy of Bambi the other day. Still i'm not allowed to copy it a 1000 times a sale it.:hmm:

That is a little different.
For Elvis soundboards you are allow to sell real cds of the imports just as you are allow to sell the official cds. If you by a whole bunch say for 5 dollar each and want to sell them to gain money you can sell them as long it isn't CD-Rs.

[jak]

That is a little different.
For Elvis soundboards you are allow to sell real cds of the imports just as you are allow to sell the official cds. If you by a whole bunch say for 5 dollar each and want to sell them to gain money you can sell them as long it isn't CD-Rs.

Im sorry but that just cant be correct.Elvis music as well as the muscians cannot be distributed like that.There is a reason why the people behind the bootlegs are not out in the open.
Jak

[thehillbillycat]

I have checked the law already. I have a friend who is a lawyer and was a lawyer for MCA Records. He even says that you are allow to sell the actual import cd as long as it is real and not from the country in which it was made. Example: I can't sell a bootleg made in the US but I can sell a import cd from Italy or I can sell as many Fort Baxter cds that I want as long as they are the real CD themselves and not CD-Rs. If they are copies of the cds then you will be breaking the law. That is coming directly from him because he used to deal with issues like this. He also owns a record/cd shop as of now since been out of the law. He retired from being a lawyer for about 30 years. He sells actual import cds in his shop and no copies what so ever will be found there. So he knows the law on subject like this. He says yes that musicians doesn't get any money from the sells. But companies like Fort Baxter and so on has their own copyrights on those cds. For the FTD New Years Eve, EPE had to ask permission to use tape that was used for that FTD since it has been copyrighted already by a forgein company.

[jak]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.The fact is there were some major busts overseas that affected the Elvis boot market some time ago.RCA has gone after the people behind these releases at different times.I personally know a few people behind the scenes of these releases.They do not want attention because it is illegal.If it were not you wouldnt have the veil of secrecy around the people involved.Why do you think Ft Baxter or the other labels back in the past didnt just have a website for you to order these discs?If they were not breaking the law the boots would be readily available.I can only speak for the bootleg market concerning Elvis.The people involved have always risked prosecution.Like I said we will just have to disagree on this one.Interesting subject though.
Jak

[pete dube]

The New Years Eve show is an audience recording, so BMG can make no legal claim against the person who recorded the show. My understanding is that these type of recordings are considered the property of the person who recorded the show, and not subject to legal action.

However import releases of studio outtakes are subject to legal action. Even if an individual has somehow managed to legally purchase some outtake recordings, BMG has the exclusive right to release Elvis Presley studio recordings, or to license other companies to release them until the copyright expires and the recordings become public domain. For the record, public domain only applies to the master recordings - not outtakes.

I'm not sure how exactly the law applies to import soundboard recordings, but I'm fairly certain they are still considered illegal, at least in the U.S.

[poormansgold]

the law applies to import soundboard recordings, but I'm fairly certain they are still considered illegal, at least in the U.S. You Are Right on this one

[memphis 77]

Youre missing the point I think.The imports being mentioned are bootlegs.Originals are factory pressed and they are illegal.No royalties are paid to the artists.The reason the boots come from other countries outside the US is that it;s harder to carck down on them.
Jak

sorry that use to be the case, back in late 90's now most of them are being pressed in your backyard, just look at rock in black cd, along with red hot , vegas rythm, these were all pressed in us, they only say italy, eu, etc...but they are done in the ol USof a. Take a look at the centre of the rock in black cd-the batch # for the cd is a us product.

[thehillbillycat]

The New Years Eve show is an audience recording, so BMG can make no legal claim against the person who recorded the show. My understanding is that these type of recordings are considered the property of the person who recorded the show, and not subject to legal action.


Yes and no to this. The only way that BMG has no claim if the person wasn't caught at the show. They can get more trouble recording a concert than selling bootlegs. Don't believe me ask my friend who is serving right now 5 years in prison for recording a show.

[pete dube]

ElvisLennon -
So what you're saying is that a person can be arrested/prosecuted if caught in the act of recording a show, but if they managed to record the show without getting caught in the act, then no legal action can be taken against them correct?

[thehillbillycat]

Yes and no to that as well. Their won't be legal action but it could happen. I don't think I have ever heard of a case that when the person has recorded a show that they got arrested. I have heard of it during the same say of a show but they won't take legal action if it was recorded a year after it was recorded. I believe that is how it works. But if the person is caught three things will happen

1. Tape recorder and tape is taken from you.
2. You will escorted by police into a police car
3. Spend time in jail until the trial if there is one.

Example: a person who recorded several concerts from James Brown to Elvis was caught during a James Brown concert. Well, when they look through his house several tapes was found and was put on trial for copyright issue. All shows that was taken was recorded within a year time. He was sentence to five years in prison plus had to pay close to 2.3 million dollars due to the amount of tapes that was found.

[poormansgold]

I never Hear someone got arrested From Recording A show, I know That Tape was taking away only he or she sale it on the street of city .

[thehillbillycat]

I never Hear someone got arrested From Recording A show, I know That Tape was taking away only he or she sale it on the street of city .

Well, if you recorded just one show they can do something to you but about 50% of the time they will arrest you for trying to record. If you recorded more than one show then they will bring more charges onto you.

[poormansgold]

Back In 1970's they didn't do nothing about it much , only took the tape/ recorded away and move you from the show,
today they Arrested you and charged you and fined you and maybe shot you lol.

[thehillbillycat]

Back In 1970's they didn't do nothing about it much , only took the tape/ recorded away and move you from the show,
today they Arrested you and charged you and fined you and maybe shot you lol.


Back in the 1970s was the same thing. It was harder to catched them then but the one I mention is one of the first to get caught at recording shows.

[poormansgold]

it's True It's was harder caught them recording a show, that time.
I know That Col. Tom Parker want everybody been check having reocrder That time, The cost haved done up in thousand dollars pr show.
Tom