What use the MM?

[Elvis_Priestly]

I just saw this picture (thanks to TCBnAflash) in the gallery

http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/files/4/2/8/0/JoeTCBring2_thumb.jpg
http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=30518&c=35

and got furious again with all Elvis' hangers on. You can see the poor man is ill, possibly/probably "stoned" or whatever. A 42 year old man needing helped down a few steps and they let him keep doing it. They let him keep clambering up onto the stage each night. Why didn't anyone do something? I know the Wests wrote that book, but that was more about money than anything else I imagine.
I love Elvis, I want to see Elvis live, not videos made when I was 6yrs old and didn't even know who he was. I want to know if you feel the same, did they all let him down so badly? Or if I'm completely wrong and they tried I want to know too to take them off my "snarl" list.

Thanks.

[T_J]

I think it's safe to say that no one could make Elvis do something he didn't want to do, including the MM and even his father. Attempts to intervene were more likely to be met by the guys being fired than anything else and then what influence could they possibly have from afar? I do think that the motivations of the MM varied. Some were true friends and some were simply hangers on. One thing I'm sure of, there wasn't one single member who could have intervened to stop Elvis touring if he wanted to tour. The Colonel had that power as he controlled the contracts, but Elvis' welfare didn't seem to be a top priority for that man. The mighty dollar was far more important.

[desiree]

I think they should have done something. A man in a bad condition as he was couldn?t control himself. I can?t believe they just let him slip down like that.
True friends help when there?s a need to. To me it seems there weren?t any friends.
They were just his subordinates and they treated Elvis as their Boss. For them he was The King.
I know he was a complicated guy, but he needed help. He was a human being, just like the rest of us, but with an amzing gift and talent.
It?s sad they didn?t notice it.

[diamond]

They were about as much use as Chocolate fireguard in my opinion.

Lawsuit upon Lawsuit is what plagued Elvis towards the end of his life.....all caused by the MM who were supposed to be there to protect him.

I am reading two books at the moment, Elvis, what happened and Elvis and the Memphis Mafia by Alanna Nash, I say reading, I'm not concentrating on it because every time I read something I literally shout out loud ( it's not good no) at what is written.

Do you know that Marty Lacker posts on a Newsgroup?, type in Marty Lacker on Google and see if it takes you to what he has to say.

By the way keep them on your ''snarl list'' just for now anyway.

[Leroy]

The reason Elvis is helped on- and off the stage has nothing to do with ill health. After being in the bright spotlight and flash bulbs from the instamatic camera's Elvis is almost blind when he has to find his way in a dark part of the building. To prevent him from falling down he is guided, mostly by Joe Esposito.

[Hav-A-Tampa]

One of Elvis's biggest problems the last few years, was that he had to keep working because of his poor finances... The Memphis Mafia were hired hands, but Colonel Parker should have looked out more for his client, instead of just grabbing whatever he could get for himself. I'm sure it wasn't easy being his manager in the 70's, but it seems like Parker more or less gave up after Aloha. Two examples are the Boxcar label and the embarrassing "Having Fun On Stage" album, Elvis hated it and even told his audience in Vegas not to buy it! And it was released ... not by a bootlegger... but by his very own manager! And then there's "Elvis In Concert". Yes, they both needed the money, but I think it's pretty clear Parker by then was thinking, oh he's going die pretty soon, why not make a buck while I still have the chance. He was not looking after Elvis's best interests, that's for sure.

[amzietamzie]

I think that when looking back in retrospect at something that?s already happened, knowing the outcome, it?s somewhat easier to start thinking ?What if??, ?How could they?? and so on. At the time, as Elvis? decline was somewhat gradual, I do understand how the impact of it maybe wasn?t so forceful and it may have seemed, in some ways, more acceptable to maybe not intervene.

As T_J said, if the members of the Memphis Mafia had tried to prevent Elvis from doing something that he needed and was obviously personal and sensitive, they could very easily have put their jobs, which in a way were their lives, in jeopardy. And so, I think some of them may have felt as though even if they had wanted to do something, it would be easier to wait and either see whether Elvis could sort it out himself, or at least wait a while before intervening. But then again, as desiree said, a true friend would protect you, especially in your darkest hours.

I do find it astonishing to think that in fewer than ten years after the 68 Comeback Special, in which Elvis looked like an Adonis, he would be dead. The transformation is just shocking and truly tragic. He still had so much to give. I do find it hard to see how people could let it happen, and by that I don?t mean just the Memphis Mafia, although obviously they, being close to Elvis, did have the opportunity to say or do something.

Ultimately, it is incredibly hard to help someone who doesn?t want to be helped. As has been said, Elvis liked helping people, but think he did want people to feel as though he was in control of himself, and, in some way, want to keep his pride in tact.

Although I think that it was hard for the people to help Elvis, prevent him from touring, do something about the drugs, and so on, and I can see that there may have been a temptation to do little as that was conceivably easier, I do find it astonishing that he was allowed to decline in such a huge and tragic way over so little time. He was an enormous talent and deserved so much more, and, in that way, I find it somewhat inconceivable that people didn?t do as much as they could to keep him and save him. But you have to look at the situation; he was Elvis Presley, the King of Rock ?n? Roll. How hard must it have been to say no to him. But ultimately, he did NEED help, and he was denied it by not only the general public, but, poignantly, by the people who claimed to have loved him. It is truly tragic and shocking, looking back, that no one did really properly try, regardless of what the outcome might be. Ever so sad.

[Tony Trout]

The reason Elvis is helped on- and off the stage has nothing to do with ill health. After being in the bright spotlight and flash bulbs from the instamatic camera's Elvis is almost blind when he has to find his way in a dark part of the building. To prevent him from falling down he is guided, mostly by Joe Esposito.


You're dead-on correct here, Leroy. Elvis suffered from glaucoma and the bright lights and the sweat (by the end of a performance) had affected his eyes so much that he could barely see. As far as the guys trying to help Elvis? They did try to help him...numerous times! Red and Sonny West both went to Elvis and explained (or tried to explain) to Elvis what he was doing to himself and the people around him and they both got fired for it but Elvis didn't think he had a drug problem...(GASP! I actually said those forbidden words! :supriced: ) and each time they tried to help him he pushed them away or fired them...it's that simple. You absolutely cannot stop a drunk from drinking or a person from taking drugs (prescription or otherwise) unless he wants to do it himself....they tried....they failed.....Elvis refused the help.....it cost him his life.....that's the sad truth.

[elvis himselvis]

right Tony and Leroy
He was just helped of stage not because he was ill...
And various members of the MM have tried to help him and get him off the drugs...even his father,but Elvis didn't listen.
But imagine for him it was hard to stop with all those pills after taking them so long an afcourse because he wasn't happy at all

[Tony Trout]

right Tony and Leroy
He was just helped of stage not because he was ill...
And various members of the MM have tried to help him and get him off the drugs...even his father,but Elvis didn't listen.
But imagine for him it was hard to stop with all those pills after taking them so long an afcourse because he wasn't happy at all


It would've been difficult for him to stop the drugs without professional help because over time the body builds up tolerance for substances...whereas one will do fine the first time, it takes more and more each next time you take them until it becomes an out-of-control situation that is very hard to curtail....

[0349054]

I just saw this picture (thanks to TCBnAflash) in the gallery

http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/files/4/2/8/0/JoeTCBring2_thumb.jpg
http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=30518&c=35

and got furious again with all Elvis' hangers on. You can see the poor man is ill, possibly/probably "stoned" or whatever. A 42 year old man needing helped down a few steps and they let him keep doing it. They let him keep clambering up onto the stage each night. Why didn't anyone do something? I know the Wests wrote that book, but that was more about money than anything else I imagine.
I love Elvis, I want to see Elvis live, not videos made when I was 6yrs old and didn't even know who he was. I want to know if you feel the same, did they all let him down so badly? Or if I'm completely wrong and they tried I want to know too to take them off my "snarl" list.

Thanks.



Most of them did try and let Elvis know what he was doing to himself - but he reacted angrily each time. No one TOLD Elvis Presley what to do. They dried him out in Baptist Memorial a few times, he was told to stop taking so much stuff and HE didn't listen.

Elvis WANTED them around, if he didn't HE would have fired them - he fired a few of them and fired most of them a few times and took them back.

I'm always amazed at people thinking Elvis was some sort of saint. Elvis had a massive drug problem which was hiw own fault, and his own responsibility. Ultimately Elvis Presley's death was Elvis Presley's fault and no one elses. No one forced the tablets down his throat or forced him to use cocaine etc...

Why did Vernon do something? Because he coulden't.......Elvis just woulden't listen.

The hangers on were chosen by Elvis, he kept them around and he took drugs. If there is anyone to blame it is Elvis. They all tried to help him - none of them wanted him dead - hence they would have no jobs, so his health was important to them.

Theres a lot more to Elvis than people like to believe and you know Elvis was the one who slept with Billy Stanley's wife for over a month. It may not be releavnt to this - but people need to realise Elvis did what he wanted, when he wanted and no one told him otherwise.

Sometimes I feel too many 'fans' have a messianic complex when it comes to Elvis.

[0349054]

I think they should have done something. A man in a bad condition as he was couldn?t control himself. I can?t believe they just let him slip down like that.
True friends help when there?s a need to. To me it seems there weren?t any friends.
They were just his subordinates and they treated Elvis as their Boss. For them he was The King.
I know he was a complicated guy, but he needed help. He was a human being, just like the rest of us, but with an amzing gift and talent.
It?s sad they didn?t notice it.


I understand what your saying, but how can you help when Elvis would fire you, and then you have no access to him?

[Tony Trout]

Most of them did try and let Elvis know what he was doing to himself - but he reacted angrily each time. No one TOLD Elvis Presley what to do. They dried him out in Baptist Memorial a few times, he was told to stop taking so much stuff and HE didn't listen.

Elvis WANTED them around, if he didn't HE would have fired them - he fired a few of them and fired most of them a few times and took them back.

I'm always amazed at people thinking Elvis was some sort of saint. Elvis had a massive drug problem which was hiw own fault, and his own responsibility. Ultimately Elvis Presley's death was Elvis Presley's fault and no one elses. No one forced the tablets down his throat or forced him to use cocaine etc...

Why didn't Vernon do something? Because he coulden't.......Elvis just woulden't listen.

The hangers on were chosen by Elvis, he kept them around and he took drugs. If there is anyone to blame it is Elvis. They all tried to help him - none of them wanted him dead - hence they would have no jobs, so his health was important to them.

Theres a lot more to Elvis than people like to believe and you know Elvis was the one who slept with Billy Stanley's wife for over a month. It may not be releavnt to this - but people need to realise Elvis did what he wanted, when he wanted and no one told him otherwise.

Sometimes I feel too many 'fans' have a messianic complex when it comes to Elvis.



Wow.....my thoughts exactly!! GREAT POST!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Donut]

From the outside all seems more easy to do but I think it was more complicated than we think it was and more since Elvis didn?t accept he really had a problem and we talk about a story that happened more than 30 years ago when people hadn?t so much information and centers for addicts.
I think it isn?t fair to blame the MM for not helping Elvis because some of them tried it and neither i think they were hangers on, they made their jobs and if Elvis had them around must be for something... the man had the right to chose his own friends and some of them were loyal to him until the end.
I think the real problem came when he started to have real health problems because it was the perfect excuse for him to say he needed all the stuff he was taking and that way he didn?t have to face the truth.

[desiree]

I understand what your saying, but how can you help when Elvis would fire you, and then you have no access to him?

Yes, well I guess you?re right. It?s just so sad he was so lost and no-one couldn?t help him.

[KPM]

The reason Elvis is helped on- and off the stage has nothing to do with ill health. After being in the bright spotlight and flash bulbs from the instamatic camera's Elvis is almost blind when he has to find his way in a dark part of the building. To prevent him from falling down he is guided, mostly by Joe Esposito.
That is so true, since he had glaucoma which the flashbulbs and spot lights did not help:
Glaucoma: The Second-Leading Cause of Blindness in the U.S.

Glaucoma affects an estimated 3 million Americans, with 120,000 blind due to the condition. Elsewhere in the world, glaucoma treatment is less available, and glaucoma ranks as a leading cause of blindness just about everywhere. Even if people with glaucoma do not become blind, vision can be severely impaired.
Glaucoma Signs and Symptoms
Chronic glaucoma (primary open-angle glaucoma or POAG) is often called "the silent thief of sight" because you have no warning sign, no hint that anything is wrong. About half of Americans with chronic glaucoma don't know they have it. Glaucoma gradually reduces your peripheral vision, but by the time you notice it, permanent damage has already occurred. If your IOP remains high, the destruction can progress until tunnel vision develops, and you will only be able to see objects that are straight ahead.

An acute attack of narrow-angle glaucoma, also termed acute angle-closure glaucoma or acute closed-angle glaucoma, produces sudden symptoms such as eye pain, headaches, haloes around lights, dilated pupils, vision loss, red eyes, nausea and vomiting. These signs may last for a few hours, then return again for another round. Each attack takes with it part of your field of vision.

Other signs include headaches, blurred vision, difficulty adapting to darkness, or haloes around lights. Chronic glaucoma normally develops after age 35.

[Hav-A-Tampa]

The reason Elvis is helped on- and off the stage has nothing to do with ill health. After being in the bright spotlight and flash bulbs from the instamatic camera's Elvis is almost blind when he has to find his way in a dark part of the building. To prevent him from falling down he is guided, mostly by Joe Esposito.

Quite right! And he did fall once, didn't he? Sometime in May 77, when Joe wasn't in his usual place?

[Tony Trout]

Quite right! And he did fall once, didn't he? Sometime in May 77, when Joe wasn't in his usual place?


According to reports, Elvis fell onstage during the first half of the show in Baltimore, MD on May 29, 1977.....a tragic example of a man who should not have been onstage at all during that final year.....

[KPM]

Elvis was no saint, but he was not the devil either. I prefer to think of him as human. All people miss the mark in some way, but we are not under a microscope when we do it. I do not know one person who can live up to the image Elvis had. All the relatives, friends and supposed friends, of Elvis were also human. I'm sure if you could search their heart of hearts you would find motives for their actions which they would deny or try to justify-thats human. Elvis made huge mistakes, but
"he was the one under the microscope being dissected 24 hours a day ,7 days a week"
Let me rephrase that,
"he is still to this day being dissected 24 hours a day, 7 days a week"
I do not handle pressure well, most people don't. Life for average people can be stressful and pressure filled. Elvis did not live the average life, he was catered to, put on a mountain by us---and-his friends and family. He was looked upon as special by all-failure is not an option on any level -so inwardly you put the pressure on yourself-that in my opinion is the highest level of pressure a man can be placed under.
I can not imagine this situation because it is so far from just everyday life.
If any regular person tries to tell you they can imagine this existence, or how they would have done things different if it was them-they are pulling your leg. Human.

[Elvis_Priestly]

Many, many thanks for all this and however it might continue.
Theres so much to think about in there, including Elvis' personal responsibility and our (ok, my) habit of confusing the icon with the man. Hey, didn't he warn against that one time himself: "the image is one thing, the man is another."
I guess its weird to grieve for someone you never knew. Maybe too I'm engaged in some displacement having had to conduct four funerals this week, and four lined up for next, three quarters of which fall into the "tragedy" category.
Here I guess I'm asking the question the families I am dealing with are asking, though for me its about Elvis, because when this job is stressful I get the music on and now have found a place to energetically discuss the man behind it. The question ... why?

[diamond]

I'm glad you can find some release in Elvis, and that shows just how unique a Human Being he was. Can you imagine people talking about great philosophers, or inventors the way we talk about Elvis, I can't.

You ask the question why?.........I myself don't want to know the answers to everything yet because then we will have nothing to discuss anymore and wouldn't that be boring?

[Elvis_Priestly]

Yep, I'm here to learn and glad to. With all said in previous postings and now this I found in the galleries here, a photo from Terry Firman, from 1971. Theres Joe doing, as you said helping him pass from bright lights to dark back stage, and even before effects of glaucoma I would think? Sorry Joe!

http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/files/8/2/1/711110BOSTON.jpg

http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=17219&c=29

[srj1967]

As much as we try to bag out the MM, yes they did try to help Elvis.

"Blame" is not the word I'd use; rather it was "responsibility". Ultimately, only Elvis - like any other person with a drug problem or another monkey on their back - could have got himself back on track.

Yes, he was very ill. But it was his choice to do drugs and live an unhealthy lifestyle (and no, I do NOT believe drug addiction is an illness, it is a choice). He was also very lazy towards the end and probably - in his mind - just didn't give a stuff anymore. Aside from Lisa, he had nothing else that mattered.

Look at an example today: Britney Spears. If she keeps going the way she is, she'll be dead within a year, then the "blame game" will start. But it is up to her only to make things right. (And no, of course there's no comparison between Britney and Elvis as artists, I am referring to lifestyle and life choices here ...)

[Tony Trout]

Yep, I'm here to learn and glad to. With all said in previous postings and now this I found in the galleries here, a photo from Terry Firman, from 1971. Theres Joe doing, as you said helping him pass from bright lights to dark back stage, and even before effects of glaucoma I would think? Sorry Joe!

http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/files/8/2/1/711110BOSTON.jpg

http://www.tcb-world.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=17219&c=29




I think the glaucoma had started to affect Elvis by early 1970, if I'm not mistaken...someone can correct me if I'm wrong.....

[KPM]

[QUOTE=srj1967;99653]As much as we try to bag out the MM, yes they did try to help Elvis.

"Blame" is not the word I'd use; rather it was "responsibility". Ultimately, only Elvis - like any other person with a drug problem or another monkey on their back - could have got himself back on track.

Yes, he was very ill. But it was his choice to do drugs and live an unhealthy lifestyle (and no, I do NOT believe drug addiction is an illness, it is a choice). He was also very lazy towards the end and probably - in his mind - just didn't give a stuff anymore. Aside from Lisa, he had nothing else that mattered.

Look at an example today: Britney Spears. If she keeps going the way she is, she'll be dead within a year, then the "blame game" will start. But it is up to her only to make things right. (And no, of course there's no comparison between Britney and Elvis as artists, I am referring to lifestyle and life choices here ...)[/QUOTE


Whether drug addiction is a choice or something in the genes is debateable. I really think you must see it from the 50s on. Elvis could not sleep and had trouble for all his life, a doctor gives him sleeping pills. Now a doctor is a person that, we will all agree, is an authority figure who when he instructs your health you listen to and trust. Elvis trusted the first doc who gave him sleeping pills. Was it explained to him how addictive they can become, that the more you use the more it takes to put you to sleep over time, that the more you take the harder it is to wake up-which starts the other cycle of taking "pep pills" to get awake and stay awake as he did in the service. Or the diet pills which the studio docs handed out like candy during the 40s 50s and 60s to help stars keep trim. Many have said that he thought there was a pill for everything that you have a problem with, he undoubtably believed it.
Elvis's whole family on both sides were prone to addictions. Today in research some have said they have found a gene which when seems to have play a big role in addictions.
As far as an unhealthy lifestyle and eating habits Elvis grew up on heavily fried foods, that the poor of he south have lived on for a hundred years. He never broke the habit by trying to eat healthy. Comfort food is an addiction I can relate to, and millions around this country can also.
There is choice in everything in life- but choice is governed not just by the conscious mind- but by inner thought which we don't even realize is going on (thats why we have head doctors)
Sure Elvis should have stopped and thought there is no magic cure for everything in a pill-but something deep inside kept him from seeing it. People with much less a load in this life have done exactly the same thing when it comes to pills, alcohol, and comfort food. But I will say this people who need to clean up their act do need a strong support group to do it. Especially when they, for whatever reason , are not seeing the problem-today we have "interventions" They even have a reality show about people having to confront loved ones to force help on them. Did Elvis have such a group around him, willing to risk all to get him help? That is also debateable. IMO

[Diane]

KPM, I have to agree with everything you said - it was great insightful post but when it comes to the end - did Elvis get the support he needed? I don't believe he did and the little of it he got came much too late.:'(

[franny]

I don't think the MM are to blame, I don't think anyone is, Elvis would have to be the one to change his ways, today most stars go to rehab, but I don't think they had them in the 70's, not sure...:hmm:

His lifestyle got out of hand, he lost control and didn't care anymore...He was a grown man and really, who could tell Elvis what to do...

franny

[KPM]

Elvis was a human being who, like all human beings, needs help and guidance now and then. I'm a grown man in my 50s but I am not ashamed to admit I have needed someone to push me on the right path in my life at different times. I fought all the way but was better off because the people who loved me stepped in. Now some people don't need help and for them thats good. I wish I was like that. But I would guess alot of people have needed a hand in at one point or another. Money problems, emotional problems, deaths of loved ones etc....
King of Rock-n-roll......weight problems...... divorce...... mothers death.....millions think you are perfect, and you know you are not.....
millions think you have all the answers, and you know you don't........searching for peace, which you can't find........
Its just not so cut and dry - or black and white to me. I would never say MM is to blame, but its easy to see how Elvis may have felt alone in a crowd.

[Elvis_Priestly]

I just watched "Walk the Line" the Johnny Cash Film and sure its a film but I believe its fairly accurate. I noticed the role of June Carter, and apparently her family, helping Johnny Cash through cold turkey etc. Two questions:
Who, if anyone, could have been Elvis's June?
Was Elvis's temper so bad, even with close friends and family?

[KPM]

Elvis did have a bad temper but would many times it would be over it quickly, then he'd try to make it up "in his own way" to whoever he had blown up at.

My daughter saw "I Walk the Line" (I haven't) and she told me a couple things that did not seem right. 1st Elvis did not tour with JL Lewis, they met after Elvis had left Sun. Elvis did tour with Johnny Cash on his show but I've never heard or read they traveled together, usually Elvis and his band were in the same car. Johnny Cash in his biography, "A Man In Black" tells how he got on pills and booze-and Elvis was not his start-my daughter told me it was hinted that Elvis gave him his 1st pills.

[Elvis_Priestly]

Elvis did have a bad temper but would many times it would be over it quickly, then he'd try to make it up "in his own way" to whoever he had blown up at.

My daughter saw "I Walk the Line" (I haven't) and she told me a couple things that did not seem right. 1st Elvis did not tour with JL Lewis, they met after Elvis had left Sun. Elvis did tour with Johnny Cash on his show but I've never heard or read they traveled together, usually Elvis and his band were in the same car. Johnny Cash in his biography, "A Man In Black" tells how he got on pills and booze-and Elvis was not his start-my daughter told me it was hinted that Elvis gave him his 1st pills.

Yes it did suggest that KPM. Like all such films little inacuracies creep in to liven it up - the guy who played Elvis was a scrawny looking uncharismatic critter too!

As far as the story goes Elvis wasn't introduced to "drugs" until he was in the army - pep pills they called them - which would have been after the touring scenes in this film anyway?

[Lisarose]

Elvis did have a bad temper but would many times it would be over it quickly, then he'd try to make it up "in his own way" to whoever he had blown up at.

My daughter saw "I Walk the Line" (I haven't) and she told me a couple things that did not seem right. 1st Elvis did not tour with JL Lewis, they met after Elvis had left Sun. Elvis did tour with Johnny Cash on his show but I've never heard or read they traveled together, usually Elvis and his band were in the same car. Johnny Cash in his biography, "A Man In Black" tells how he got on pills and booze-and Elvis was not his start-my daughter told me it was hinted that Elvis gave him his 1st pills.

Lots of inaccuracies in Hollywood's version. They did imply to Johnny that "even ole Elvis takes them".

Back to the MM - I never gave them much credit in being Elvis' friends in the past. Then after I started reading about Elvis, well, I don't really know what to think, but it seems to me that the newer members were in it for what the Elvis name could do for them. :mad: They were invited to all the Hollywood parties, the band parties, & they always agreed with Elvis instead of being brutally honest as good friends often do. A good friend will tell you that your hair is too big, or that outfit looks great or stinks. And good friends don't let you win at all the games. :hmm: For the most part, I still don't like very many of them. Just my opinion.

[Awickedreigndrop]

Lots of inaccuracies in Hollywood's version. They did imply to Johnny that "even ole Elvis takes them".

Back to the MM - I never gave them much credit in being Elvis' friends in the past. Then after I started reading about Elvis, well, I don't really know what to think, but it seems to me that the newer members were in it for what the Elvis name could do for them. :mad: They were invited to all the Hollywood parties, the band parties, & they always agreed with Elvis instead of being brutally honest as good friends often do. A good friend will tell you that your hair is too big, or that outfit looks great or stinks. And good friends don't let you win at all the games. :hmm: For the most part, I still don't like very many of them. Just my opinion.

I totally agree:clap: Also they wouldn't have cared about his temper tantrums or him firing them either as long as they got the point across to him and he grapsed it. If they really were his friends they would have kept bringing it up no matter what he did as an outcome. That's what real friends do.:hug:

[Lisarose]

I totally agree:clap: Also they wouldn't have cared about his temper tantrums or him firing them either as long as they got the point across to him and he grapsed it. If they really were his friends they would have kept bringing it up no matter what he did as an outcome. That's what real friends do.:hug:

Exactly, but then I've read where he fired them & then later on he rehired them. I'm thinking living in close quarters, sooner or later you just want to get away, but not abandon ship.

[0349054]

I totally agree:clap: Also they wouldn't have cared about his temper tantrums or him firing them either as long as they got the point across to him and he grapsed it. If they really were his friends they would have kept bringing it up no matter what he did as an outcome. That's what real friends do.:hug:

It is difficult to help someone who wont help themselves. Don't forget Elvis often "banished" people - preventing them from being anywhere near him.

At the end of the day, Elvis manipulated people and doctors to get his drugs, both legal and illegal. He ran a mafia type shop, where as head of the organisation, he hired and fired people.

They filled his drugs capsules with sugar, taking out the chemicals. They coulden't do that if they wern't around him, and if they challenged him too much, he would banish them.

I honestly don't think people realise the way Elvis worked, and just how impossible it was to help him. Elvis didn't want help, and Elvis Presley wasn't going to be told what to do.

He knew what he was taking, he had that physicians reference book with him everywhere, and knew what worked well with what to get a buzz off.

[KPM]

It is difficult to help someone who wont help themselves. Don't forget Elvis often "banished" people - preventing them from being anywhere near him.

At the end of the day, Elvis manipulated people and doctors to get his drugs, both legal and illegal. He ran a mafia type shop, where as head of the organisation, he hired and fired people.

They filled his drugs capsules with sugar, taking out the chemicals. They coulden't do that if they wern't around him, and if they challenged him too much, he would banish them.

I honestly don't think people realise the way Elvis worked, and just how impossible it was to help him. Elvis didn't want help, and Elvis Presley wasn't going to be told what to do.

He knew what he was taking, he had that physicians reference book with him everywhere, and knew what worked well with what to get a buzz off.
You have an opinion, and others do also. Its just that opinion. All of us go by what we have heard or read by all these guys who were there. Over the years stories have changed, and so on. I was not there. But the one guy whos story is vital to this whole debate is not here-Elvis's version. How much people really did depends on who you read or talk to. All the people who've written books somewhere along the way has said or written that, "they were the one" who leveled with Elvis. I happen to believe in human nature and the fact is that everyone tends to play up there
own role in good things and play down the bad and to rationalize there role. Gee Elvis can't write a book detailing his take on the faults of everyone he dealt with, or the reasons for his life as it was, or who in his opinion was a true friend. Never be written, never be known!
Could Elvis have been helped -IMO- Yes. That being said were the people around him capable of doing so-IMO-No. I know many are on the other side of the fence on this issue so IMO its best "to agree to disagree in a friendly way" Because it is not something any of us can state for 100% positive fact either way. Its us looking back and trying to come up with a definitive answer of an unanswerable question.

[franny]

I agree, I think Elvis was very alone, even though he had millions of fans...

Who were his true friends? The MM worked for him and yes they valued their salaries, but did they value Elvis as a friend? Does anyone know for sure if they tried to help Elvis...

franny

[0349054]

I agree, I think Elvis was very alone, even though he had millions of fans...

Who were his true friends? The MM worked for him and yes they valued their salaries, but did they value Elvis as a friend? Does anyone know for sure if they tried to help Elvis...

franny


Elvis didn't want help. They tried their best some of them, but he was just not having it. He threatened Red West with a gun for; "Telling ELVIS PRESLEY" what to do.

[0349054]

You hire people and pay their salaries. I guess you have the right to fire them. People who get stoned as much as you don't have the right to tell you to quit. Besides they loved the party, there only concern was it might end.
Things might ahve been different if there were someone to talk to. Someone to trust with your feelings. People that you could talk to seemed to disappear though. Seems the others didn't care to have them around. A lot of times you spoke, but no one really listened. Faces seemed to brighten though when it came to gifts and fun.
You swallow a pill and the reality is easier to take. You isolate yourself to your room and think of the good times and the simple pleasures that brought a smile to your face. Pleasures out of reach.
You isolate yourself because occasionally a tear comes to your face when you think of what you have lost. You couldn't let anyone see that tear. Because then they might think you are weak. You can't have that. What would it do to you image? Oh yes, gotta protect the image. You ahve everything but not really. You don't have peace of mind.



I know opinions are opinions.

But...........


I really don't understand why people feel the need to blame everyone except Elvis. What about Vernon? What did he do to help? Not much.

What about Elvis? He knew he had a problem, he was told by the doctors at Baptist Memorial to stop, and he didn't. He could see his physical degeneration - yet he continued.

Elvis is responsible for Elvis's health in my book - and I don't buy into feeling sorry for him over his constant drug abuse.

Besides - The MM were picked by Elvis - so if people want to lambast them for not helping - then turn your attention to Elvis, he's the one who picked them and kept them there.

[Merry]

Oh, go to hell numbers. You don't know what the hell you are talking about.. I've had it with everybody. You and the others are so holier-than-thou.Don't bother replying. I'm gone.


Just his uninformed opinion. Most people disagree with him.

Ignore him, what does he know? Some people haven't lived. Nothing will change.

Why throw away who cares and what is good, because of the opinion of people you don't know?

[Merry]

Numbers,

The situation is, unless you have been in that situation, you honestly, wouldn't know. How can you know what goes on from reading books? How can you know what someone feels, or their circumstances from one or two points of view, from someone who has written a book, a sensationalised book, to make money?

Have you been involved or know someone who has gone through the hell of prescription medication? I've had an aunt go through it, it sneaks up. Not something to judge, unless you've been involved, honestly!

[0349054]

I totally reject that mentality and that way of thinking.

Jess, I don't just read books, although I have read nearly every book from people who know Elvis, but I also speak and communicate with those closest to him on a daily basis to understand Elvis more fully as I do enjoy discussing Elvis, both his failings and his achievements.

I know people who are alcoholics, gambling addicts and drug abusers. They are all addicts, just as Elvis was. I don't for one second blame anyone else, except them for getting themselves into that situation in the first place. However, I do have compassion for the set of circumstances they find themselves in.

It seems that this is quite an emotive topic on this messageboard. The user, "AFriend" seems to wish me to go to hell (unfortunately, I don't believe such a place exists, and thus will not be taking up that offer) and it does raise certain questions about peoples own beliefs and desires.

Elvis's fans construct their own narratives regarding the man. I prefer to try and stay within the realm of facts. Elvis had a drug problem. Elvis never sought help for it. Help was given at Baptist Memorial and also by people around him - Elvis rejected it. Elvis got off the pills for the Aloha concert - the day after, he wasn't able to go to see the Memorial to the USS Arizona, that he helped put there (through his Hawaii benefit show) because he had gone back on the pills.

Elvis's contemporary popularity, and the way people embrace him is largely linked to the different ways they see him. I see that both Jess and I have different views about addiction - mine being that people must take responsibility for their actions and accept help when it is offered - although, I see what you are saying Jess, that it can be a constant struggle and I do respect your opinion, see where you are coming from and accept that it is a worthy and legitimate train of thought. It's just that I departed that train a few stops earlier, when the addict continually refused help.

As for "AFriend", I will not resort to name calling and obsenity's as I find that quite dull and imaginative. I prefer to discuss opinions, and not to run for the woods when someone says something I find abhorrent.

Elvis honed a certain image throughout his life, isn't it time that image is deconstructed by his fans? The public already acknowledge his failings and still embrace him, his fans resort to aggression and abusive language in order to maintain their own "Elvis", imo.

[0349054]

Just his uninformed opinion. Most people disagree with him.

Ignore him, what does he know? Some people haven't lived. Nothing will change.

Why throw away who cares and what is good for people you don't know?


Jess - My opinion is quite informed, and I would welcome to see the majority of people on this board who disagree with me on topics? On the contrary I find that many people do agree - although we all can't always agree on anything, that's democracy, free speech and 20th century popular culture.

I haven't degraded you Jess, I suggest you refrain from such behaviour and discuss this matter in an adult way.

I am suprised that you would make such a comment.

[meg]

Elvis got off the pills for the Aloha concert - the day after, he wasn't able to go to see the Memorial to the USS Arizona, that he helped put there (through his Hawaii benefit show) because he had gone back on the pills.

He didn?t stop.That?s not possible after so a long time.:D

[0349054]

Only going on what everyone around him says - it's something they actually all agree on - and of course his appearence and coherence were vastly improved for the Aloha special. It's quite clear he changed something about himself, because post Aloha he went downhill, especially during parts of 74'.

Look at Elvis in 72' and then for Aloha in 73', actually look at his incoherent press conference at the Las Vegas Hilton to announce the show in 72'. Compare that with Aloha. Different man.

[jak]

I totally reject that mentality and that way of thinking.

Jess, I don't just read books, although I have read nearly every book from people who know Elvis, but I also speak and communicate with those closest to him on a daily basis to understand Elvis more fully as I do enjoy discussing Elvis, both his failings and his achievements.

I know people who are alcoholics, gambling addicts and drug abusers. They are all addicts, just as Elvis was. I don't for one second blame anyone else, except them for getting themselves into that situation in the first place. However, I do have compassion for the set of circumstances they find themselves in.

It seems that this is quite an emotive topic on this messageboard. The user, "AFriend" seems to wish me to go to hell (unfortunately, I don't believe such a place exists, and thus will not be taking up that offer) and it does raise certain questions about peoples own beliefs and desires.

Elvis's fans construct their own narratives regarding the man. I prefer to try and stay within the realm of facts. Elvis had a drug problem. Elvis never sought help for it. Help was given at Baptist Memorial and also by people around him - Elvis rejected it. Elvis got off the pills for the Aloha concert - the day after, he wasn't able to go to see the Memorial to the USS Arizona, that he helped put there (through his Hawaii benefit show) because he had gone back on the pills.

Elvis's contemporary popularity, and the way people embrace him is largely linked to the different ways they see him. I see that both Jess and I have different views about addiction - mine being that people must take responsibility for their actions and accept help when it is offered - although, I see what you are saying Jess, that it can be a constant struggle and I do respect your opinion, see where you are coming from and accept that it is a worthy and legitimate train of thought. It's just that I departed that train a few stops earlier, when the addict continually refused help.

As for "AFriend", I will not resort to name calling and obsenity's as I find that quite dull and imaginative. I prefer to discuss opinions, and not to run for the woods when someone says something I find abhorrent.

Elvis honed a certain image throughout his life, isn't it time that image is deconstructed by his fans? The public already acknowledge his failings and still embrace him, his fans resort to aggression and abusive language in order to maintain their own "Elvis", imo.

I agree with you 100%.So many fans just rely on their blind devotion to Elvis.He will always be the "poor victim" no matter the truth is.To acknowledge
that Elvis was his own worst enemy doesnt make me less of a fan.Elvis was a powerfull person and he had the chance to turn things around both professionally and in his private life.It's just so easy to blame the cronies or Parker.The blame should rest on the shoulders of Elvis.
Jak

[meg]

Only going on what everyone around him says

And you think this stupid uneducated boys are telling the truth?I know it isn?t possible don?t believe everything they told.He only took not that much :lol:

[0349054]

If you are referring to a judge (Sam Thompson) and also Jerry Schilling who has a degree and also was a former manager of the beach boys as stupid eneduated boys - then yes. I shudder to think what 'educated' constitutes for you - or for that matter your views on Elvis's level of education.

[0349054]

I agree with you 100%.So many fans just rely on their blind devotion to Elvis.He will always be the "poor victim" no matter the truth is.To acknowledge
that Elvis was his own worst enemy doesnt make me less of a fan.Elvis was a powerfull person and he had the chance to turn things around both professionally and in his private life.It's just so easy to blame the cronies or Parker.The blame should rest on the shoulders of Elvis.
Jak

I agree Jak, and may I say, your enlightend view is quite refreshing!

[Merry]

And you think this stupid uneducated boys are telling the truth?I know it isn?t possible don?t believe everything they told.He only took not that much :lol:


Exactly. Some of the others' memories were inaccurate because of what they were on and some had ulterior motives.

It would be great if this is dropped. No-one knows other peoples' stories or who they are hurting talking this way. It is hurting me, and no, you don't know the situation.


Jess

[meg]

If you are referring to a judge (Sam Thompson) and also Jerry Schilling who has a degree and also was a former manager of the beach boys as stupid eneduated boys - then yes. I shudder to think what 'educated' constitutes for you - or for that matter your views on Elvis's level of education.


Believe what you want to believe.Watch the aloha and you see he?s drugged!

[MauriceColgan]

Exactly. Some of the others' memories were inaccurate because of what they were on and some had ulterior motives.

It would be great if this is dropped. No-one knows other peoples' stories or who they are hurting talking this way. It is hurting me, and no, you don't know the situation.


Jess

Yes it is like asking an untutored amateur artist to portray Rembrandt, like a Rembrandt would.

People have had to actually live a real life to see how those guys around Elvis were so sheltered and immature.

All their petty jealousy is now out in the open. Only the most gullible would give their accounts much credence. Sifting through all the obvious nonsense has taught me to carry a lot of salt!

Yes Elvis should have taken more control of his life and career, but he was like the rest of us...all too human.

What are we doing wasting valuable time dicussing a dead man. Go figure :) See what I mean?

But all that beautiful Elvis Presley music we share bonds us together..often for life.

[0349054]

Believe what you want to believe.Watch the aloha and you see he?s drugged!

I have and he's not. I suggest you go and watch the Aloha press conference from 72 and then Aloha from 73 and then make that same statement.

[0349054]

Exactly. Some of the others' memories were inaccurate because of what they were on and some had ulterior motives.

It would be great if this is dropped. No-one knows other peoples' stories or who they are hurting talking this way. It is hurting me, and no, you don't know the situation.


Jess


I don't see the harm in discussing Elvis. If this is distressing you then just avoid the thread!

[Elvis_Priestly]

I've been having real problems connecting here, or anywhere for that matter, the last 24 hours and finally get back here and it seems to have all gotten angry. Maybe my fault because I started it in anger.

In all thats been said theres two apparent poles opened up that the fault lay with Elvis, or, with those around him. Perhaps, and perhaps as usual, the fault lies half way between the two. I do believe in personal responsibility, but I believe it needs a community of support around it to foster it and help resolutions towards their fulfillment.

One of the first things a member of the MM said after Elvis's death was "yes" when asked by a reporter if Elvis was found dead in his bed, so there is a very early precedent for them not always telling the truth. I don't think its true, either, that Elvis never tried.

I've just, in the last couple of weeks, watched three videos of Elvis concerts: August 1976, Elvis is big and slurred and ungainly - December 1976, Elvis is slim, rocking and having fun - June 1977, well we've all seen that one. (I've put a little clips picture together below for your own comparison.) Elvis is the only thing that has changed: in the December concerts the songs are roughly the same as in the other two, the band roughly plays the same way, the crowd screams the same way.

In December Elvis is slimmer, laughing (not chuckling at private jokes) and sings Hurt like you wouldn't believe. What would it be like to make such a dramatic change and the world around you then acts as if nothings happened? What if you knew you had problems and had tried to start doing something about it and no-one clapped you any louder? What would have been the point, and by the following June you're back to August again as if December had never come?
Yeah he needed to take the first step of 12, but when he did he needed a community of support around him to tell him there was eleven more to go.
I'm not convinced he got that, and I am convinced that each time you have to climb that first step again its grown taller.

Thought this was about Elvis though, not about us. Its not even about agree to disagree because I think we can learn from all perspectives, I know I do and have in my brief time here. And, Maurice, if you don't mind me agreeing with you again ;), you're right:
But all that beautiful Elvis Presley music we share bonds us together..often for life.

[Tony Trout]

I have and he's not. I suggest you go and watch the Aloha press conference from 72 and then Aloha from 73 and then make that same statement.



Unfortunately (and you can believe me or not) Elvis did have substances in him during the dress rehearsal and the actual Aloha show. Hamburger James apparently gave him a shot of B12 mixed with amphetamines straight in the hip before going onstage....to say he was totally clean for that show or the rehearsal show is absolutely ludicrous!!

The reason for his 'incoherent" press conference at the Las Vegas Hilton after his run in September of 1972 to announce the "Aloha" show most likely had to do with the screwy schedule that Parker had him on. He has just gotten through with either a midnight or 3:00 a.m. show (can't remember which it was....it was a very late show!) who wouldn't be out of it on a schedule like that?? Parker should have had better sense!!

:angry: (n) :cursing:

[meg]

I have and he's not. I suggest you go and watch the Aloha press conference from 72 and then Aloha from 73 and then make that same statement.


No the Aloha and not the press conference.I can see if one is drugged I worked
20 years as a spezialist in a psychiatric hospital!:)

[0349054]

I've been having real problems connecting here, or anywhere for that matter, the last 24 hours and finally get back here and it seems to have all gotten angry. Maybe my fault because I started it in anger.
In all thats been said theres two apparent poles opened up that the fault lay with Elvis, or, with those around him. Perhaps, and perhaps as usual, the fault lies half way between the two. I do believe in personal responsibility, but I believe it needs a community of support around it to foster it and help resolutions towards their fulfillment.
One of the first things a member of the MM said after Elvis's death was "yes" when asked by a reporter if Elvis was found dead in his bed, so there is a very early precedent for them not always telling the truth. I don't think its true, either, that Elvis never tried.
I've just, in the last couple of weeks, watched three videos of Elvis concerts: August 1976, Elvis is big and slurred and ungainly - December 1976, Elvis is slim, rocking and having fun - June 1977, well we've all seen that one. (I've put a little clips picture together below for your own comparison.) Elvis is the only thing that has changed: in the December concerts the songs are roughly the same as in the other two, the band roughly plays the same way, the crowd screams the same way. In December Elvis is slimmer, laughing (not chuckling at private jokes) and sings Hurt like you wouldn't believe. What would it be like to make such a dramatic change and the world around you then acts as if nothings happened? What if you knew you had problems and had tried to start doing something about it and no-one clapped you any louder? What would have been the point, and by the following June you're back to August again as if December had never come?
Yeah he needed to take the first step of 12, but when he did he needed a community of support around him to tell him there was eleven more to go.
I'm not convinced he got that, and I am convinced that each time you have to climb that first step again its grown taller.

Thought this was about Elvis though, not about us. Its not even about agree to disagree because I think we can learn from all perspectives, I know I do and have in my brief time here. And, Maurice, if you don't mind me agreeing with you again ;), you're right:
But all that beautiful Elvis Presley music we share bonds us together..often for life.


What you say does contatin truthful elements, I just don't believe Elvis wanted to be helped that much.

As for lying about finding him in bed? The alternative was he had his pyjama bottoms wrapped around his ankles when he fell off the commode, thats how they found him. I'll go with bed anytime over the commode story, especially just after he died. I can imagine what would be said had Esposito said commode straight off.

There are far too many people who like Elvis in a themed Elvis reality, becoming Google scholars, and adding little of any real context to the Elvis story. I do not believe in such methods, and prefer a more upfront approach. Thoughts about music and the like belong on a different thread. We all know about Elvis's contemporary cultural popularity - we don't need any reminding of it and as for fans constructing narratives that we share a bond through his music, I think the dynamics are bit more complicated than that, and not for discussion on this thread.

[Merry]

I've been having real problems connecting here, or anywhere for that matter, the last 24 hours and finally get back here and it seems to have all gotten angry. Maybe my fault because I started it in anger.
In all thats been said theres two apparent poles opened up that the fault lay with Elvis, or, with those around him. Perhaps, and perhaps as usual, the fault lies half way between the two. I do believe in personal responsibility, but I believe it needs a community of support around it to foster it and help resolutions towards their fulfillment.
One of the first things a member of the MM said after Elvis's death was "yes" when asked by a reporter if Elvis was found dead in his bed, so there is a very early precedent for them not always telling the truth. I don't think its true, either, that Elvis never tried.
I've just, in the last couple of weeks, watched three videos of Elvis concerts: August 1976, Elvis is big and slurred and ungainly - December 1976, Elvis is slim, rocking and having fun - June 1977, well we've all seen that one. (I've put a little clips picture together below for your own comparison.) Elvis is the only thing that has changed: in the December concerts the songs are roughly the same as in the other two, the band roughly plays the same way, the crowd screams the same way. In December Elvis is slimmer, laughing (not chuckling at private jokes) and sings Hurt like you wouldn't believe. What would it be like to make such a dramatic change and the world around you then acts as if nothings happened? What if you knew you had problems and had tried to start doing something about it and no-one clapped you any louder? What would have been the point, and by the following June you're back to August again as if December had never come?
Yeah he needed to take the first step of 12, but when he did he needed a community of support around him to tell him there was eleven more to go.
I'm not convinced he got that, and I am convinced that each time you have to climb that first step again its grown taller.

Thought this was about Elvis though, not about us. Its not even about agree to disagree because I think we can learn from all perspectives, I know I do and have in my brief time here. And, Maurice, if you don't mind me agreeing with you again ;), you're right:
But all that beautiful Elvis Presley music we share bonds us together..often for life.



Hi Conor,

This whole thread is horrible, yes it should be avoided if one is distressed, all of that. Who am I though? Who is anyone here? Does anyone know who is hurting reading this, and why? 4000 odd members, you can't tell me that there aren't people affected by negativity.

Who are we to judge? Who are we to pull someone apart? If we do, shouldn't we put ourselves up for scrutiny first?

Unless we are perfect ourselves, who are we to judge others? Yes Elvis is gone, but does that mean we disrespect him?

Yes Elvis did need a community of support, so why are we showing the opposite?

Why aren't we talking about the music? We are all God's children, (or whatever we believe) why can't we just love one another without pulling others' apart?

AFriend is my friend, and I do what friends do for others, support them, everyone has bad days.

Jess

1:20 a.m. Good-night, God Bless, cause we all need it.

Please think of others, before you cast the first stone. I thought this place was special, I'm dissappointed that everyone just runs Elvis down, as if they are perfect, themselves.

[0349054]

Hi Conor,

This whole thread is horrible, yes it should be avoided if one is distressed, all of that. Who am I though? Who is anyone here? Does anyone know who is hurting reading this, and why? 4000 odd members, you can't tell me that there aren't people affected by negativity.

Who are we to judge? Who are we to pull someone apart? If we do, shouldn't we put ourselves up for scrutiny first?

Unless we are perfect ourselves, who are we to judge others? Yes Elvis is gone, but does that mean we disrespect him?

Yes Elvis did need a community of support, so why are we showing the opposite?

Why aren't we talking about the music? We are all God's children, (or whatever we believe) why can't we just love one another without pulling others' apart?

AFriend is my friend, and I do what friends do for others, support them, everyone has bad days.

Jess

1:20 a.m. Good-night, God Bless, cause we all need it.

Please think of others, before you cast the first stone. I thought this place was special, I'm dissappointed that everyone just runs Elvis down, as if they are perfect, themselves.


Surely this biblical rabble belongs somewhere else rather than an Elvis message board.

Survival of the fittest - Charles Darwin - I prefer to believe in science than simply a book which was produced by a bunch of priests after the early christians needed a text to believe in - so many other texts were rejected for the final draft, it really does beg the question about the authority, authenticity and accuracy of such book(s). I say..... throw as many stones, if you don't you may not be standing at the end!

(Sorry, but really, these sort of comments are trying to drag this thread into a womens problem column in one of those gossip magazines, with a hint of new age spirituality......now where are my essential oils!)

Lets try and stick to the point if we are to continue, and those who don't like the thread.....avoid it!

[memphis 77]

The reason Elvis is helped on- and off the stage has nothing to do with ill health. After being in the bright spotlight and flash bulbs from the instamatic camera's Elvis is almost blind when he has to find his way in a dark part of the building. To prevent him from falling down he is guided, mostly by Joe Esposito.

this would last quite a while after leaving the stage, even when he arrived on stage he would be squinting, it was common knoledge among fans that he hated flash photography, and many bought strobes to photograph him, E.P. would pose or show you the rings while you photographed him- again one of a kind, ELVIS loved his fans and truly appreciated them.:D

[Merry]

Surely this biblical rabble belongs somewhere else rather than an Elvis message board.

Survival of the fittest - Charles Darwin, throw as many stones, if you don't you may not be standing at the end!

(Sorry, but really, these sort of comments are trying to drag this thread into a womens problem column in one of those gossip magazines, with a hint of new age spirituality......now where are my essential oils!)

Lets try and stick to the point if we are to continue, and those who don't like the thread.....avoid it!


I'm young enough to not have the insulting "women's problems" thing, if you are referring to menopause. I don't think that is what you mean, anyway.

The point? Anything that is insulting to someone's memory who is gone, should be kept for private conversations, between people who agree with you, rather than publicly running someone down. All I was trying to do, was diffuse the situation, not inflame it.

[0349054]

I'm young enough to not have the insulting "women's problems" thing, if you are referring to menopause. I don't think that is what you mean, anyway.

The point? Anything that is insulting to someone's memory who is gone, should be kept for private conversations, between people who agree with you, rather than publicly running someone down. All I was trying to do, was diffuse the situation, not inflame it.

It's a message board. You can choose which topics who wish to view and/or participate in.

People insult Goldman's memory, he's dead.

Were here to tak about Elvis, if you don't want to, or if it goes againt your beliefs that Elvis did x,y and z, then just ignore it.

No one is telling you what you can or can't believe - don't try and tell the rest of us.

Death does not bring any mystical elements, or prevent further discussion of a topic - if anything it broadens it.

I just don't agree that on a message board I should come under the influence of any quasi-religious beliefs.

Avoid the topic if it disturbs you!!!!!

[Albert]

I don't think it's wrong or make you any "lesser Elvisfan" when you discuss Elvis' wak points. There are plenty medical documentaries about what made Elvis an addict. Because let's face it: Elvis was addicted to medication and also had an addiction to eating. His addiction shows on so many other levels.

Elvis wasn't prefect: his death is a clear example. He had the world in his hands, but threw it all away. The whole world witnessed his decline throughout the 70s.

A discussion like this should be possible.

[Merry]

I don't think it's wrong or make you any "lesser Elvisfan" when you discuss Elvis' wak points. There are plenty medical documentaries about what made Elvis an addict. Because let's face it: Elvis was addicted to medication and also had an addiction to eating. His addiction shows on so many other levels.

Elvis wasn't prefect: his death is a clear example. He had the world in his hands, but threw it all away. The whole world witnessed his decline throughout the 70s.

A discussion like this should be possible.



Hi Albert,

Yes, he was on prescription medication, I don't disagree with any of that nor the challenges. I am not wishing to tell anyone what to do, either.

Elvis wasn't perfect, and was the first to admit it, he didn't like having to put up with the perceived image that dogged him through his career, it would be horrible for anyone to be under that type of pressure.

None of us are perfect.

Can't there just be some respect shown? My point is, should he be pulled apart? The two people conversing, are Numbers and I, so I shall drop it now. I was trying to diffuse. Not play tennis (back and forth).

Jess

[MauriceColgan]

Yes discuss the topic. It has been done to death many times on a lot of message boards and those that think they know more than the rest of us just regurgitate regurgitated info from books written by truth challenged guys.

I guess some people just love to pose AS being in the know.

Like a member of the Free Masons with all their INSIDE knowledge. LOL.

Nothing about the Elvis story surprises me, good or bad, at my age I have seen far worse tragedies.

Now I'll trouble this thread no more. I like to concentrate on what was best about Elvis and that was his beautiful music.

Even the great music genius, Ludwig Van Beethoven, had his tragic personal problems and very bad career moves but Concert going people flock to hear his wonderful music in cities all over he world.

I just bought a new Beethoven biography along with "Elvis at 21" so I dont just google all my info. LOL. :)

EDIT Elvis_ Priestly, It's always nice to be able to agree now and again. :-)
Methinks we should calm down a little. Nobody can escape the hardline drug accusations on message boards so hardly a fan online is in the dark. But exaggeration always creeps in!

[jak]

I dont see the harm in discussing the darker issues that were involved in his life.The alternative is just to pull the covers over your head and pretend they dont exist.You need to explore the good along with the bad to better understand what made him who he was.It's impossible to avoid these issues particulary during his last few years because they played such an integral part of his life.Another way of dodging the issue is using the term prescription drugs when referring to his intake.In my opinion many fans feel that somewhat validates his need for drugs.The truth is that Elvis' prescription medication was just as potent if not more so than street drugs.His "prescribed medication" caused him more harm than Parker,Priscilla or the memphis mafia combined.
Jak

[Elvis_Priestly]

Thanks for all the input. I no longer have an irrational anger against the MM and know now why Elvis was helped from the stage.
I always knew Elvis wasn't perfect. We all know the MM weren't perfect either.
The world, history, is indeed full of tragedies - only a few happen to people famous enough for the world to notice. Most tragedies happen where no-one can see except those intimately involved.
As a fan it helps to understand a little more.
As a person it doesn't help when mud starts slinging, or people say "I'm right, you don't need to know anymore"
I'll always need to know more. So I'll leave this thread now, grateful for the wisdom, sad for the fractiousness and go look at those splendid galleries again, listen to Elvis, wonder still and learn more if I can.

Now, how many rhinestones were on that Aloha suit....

[elvis himselvis]

Was Elvis found dead in his bed or in the Bathroom?

[0349054]

I dont see the harm in discussing the darker issues that were involved in his life.The alternative is just to pull the covers over your head and pretend they dont exist.You need to explore the good along with the bad to better understand what made him who he was.It's impossible to avoid these issues particulary during his last few years because they played such an integral part of his life.Another way of dodging the issue is using the term prescription drugs when referring to his intake.In my opinion many fans feel that somewhat validates his need for drugs.The truth is that Elvis' prescription medication was just as potent if not more so than street drugs.His "prescribed medication" caused him more harm than Parker,Priscilla or the memphis mafia combined.
Jak

Well said Jak and I think we should continue to discuss this issue.

Veiled attacks from insignificant people with little intellect aside, this is a topic worth exploring in more detail, but I do feel ultimately the blame lands on Elvis's shoulders.

[Tony Trout]

Was Elvis found dead in his bed or in the Bathroom?


Elvis was found in the bathroom by Ginger Alden....he most definitely was not found in the bed by Joe Esposito as Joe would have you believe....I think Joe was just saying that for the press because he didn't want them to know how Elvis was found or he wanted to 'soften the blow' as to how Elvis was found.....Ginger stated later that she found him.....which we all know is true.

[0349054]

Elvis was found in the bathroom by Ginger Alden....he most definitely was not found in the bed by Joe Esposito as Joe would have you believe....I think Joe was just saying that for the press because he didn't want them to know how Elvis was found or he wanted to 'soften the blow' as to how Elvis was found.....Ginger stated later that she found him.....which we all know is true.

Yes and Joe has for quite some time now said it was in the bathroom.

[KPM]

It s funny some here are putting it as (and may I paraphrase) either
Elvis was a total jerk who should be blamed for every ill that befell him, his family and the MM are the keepers of the truth, the whole truth nothing but the truth and their words and memories are gospel-or-
Elvis was a total victim who they all took advantage of and we are to believe nothing of what they say. I do not think either is 100% true.
I will say this again-no one here knows the whole truth. No one here has the corner on fact or fiction. No one here-was there. If you read a hundred books, see a dozen docudramas, talk to every living person who was involved
you can never know whole truth-this is fact. If Elvis were here to give his side that would be fair-he is not. The guys who write the books are making money-more power to them. Perhaps if their stories had all stayed consistent over the 30 years they would not be doubted when each new revelation appears with- each new "project".
Elvis was no saint, he did have a drug problem, he did have a temper, he did have fears, doubts, and human failings. I do not dispute all of the above. What I do dispute is did he want help-some here say no, but who can say for sure. I would have had to have been in his head 24/7 to give an answer. Believe it or not many people want help for all kinds of problems- but do not know how to ask, are afraid to ask- they do not want to look weak.Some people just truely don't see the problem or believe its not a problem If you were called a King by practically everyone in the world how easy would it be for you to ask?
Elvis should have done more, but so should everyone else.
I have read and seen many accounts of his problems with drugs, but I do not recall reading where everyone involved-family, Parker, MM, Dr. Nick all got together at one time(strength in numbers) and confronted him. I 've read about individuals saying they did- but not all at once with a real plan as to what they would do. I'll agree Vernon and Parker should have led the way. It looks like no one really wanted to be in the lead to-rock the boat.
I think it comes down to the theory, "No man is an island"
If you believe a man is an island who has no responsiblity for his fellow man-only for himself then I guess Its all Elvis's fault and he intentionally wanted to be in the situation he was.
If you believe sometimes people get lost in some way need help and others have to act without worry of consequences then you believe:
"No man is an island"
IMO "No man is an island"
Elvis was not an island, but he was lost in the sea and no one for whatever reason had the courage to swim to him. Everyday people help others with no thought but that person needs my help this is a fact. What a sad world this will be if that ever changes.

[jak]

KPM,
Nobody is saying Elvis was a jerk.It's just that so many fans want to seek out convenient scapegoats for Elvis' problems.I've been a fan a long time and it's always been commonplace to do this.It's much easier to shift the blame rather than admit Elvis was his own worst enemy.I honestly believe Elvis was basically a good hearted person and genuinely cared for others around him.I also believe he had a dark side.His drug problem made this even worse.I believe it ruined his personal life and his career.To a certain degree Elvis gave up on his career in the end.The drugs took his motivation and desire away from him.Who knows what he would have done had his judgement not been clouded by the drugs.The people around him tried several times to turn him around.Sadly though Elvis' massive ego would not let him accept that he had a problem.The image of Elvis that was carefully constructed over the years differed from the private man of course.Confronting Elvis Presley one on one on his own turf had to be a monumental task to say the least.You would not have been dealing with the shy humble country boy who was always willing to talk to his fans.I really dont think many fans know what Elvis was capable of behind closed doors.
Jak

[Merry]

I'm listening to the radio show, which is F.A.N.T.A.S.T.I.C. with lovely people, who love Elvis.

I think I'll just have to stick to there.

It's about the music, not about people, themselves. Please see it. Please love the music, as it should be.

Jess

[Jumpsuit Junkie]

This topic always seems to arise over the period of a year :P

Personally I don't think anyone looks good in the Elvis drug debate! Yes Elvis should have accepted help & yes his friends and family should have tried harder. The MM were a bunch of "yes men" and for the most part didn't want to rock the boat (Gravy Train). I don't doubt that some tried to get Elvis off the drugs, in the end the person you are trying to help has to won't help or at the very least admit that help is needed.

The sad truth is everyone Including Elvis buried their head in the sand and thought that everything would be ok in the early 70's, by 76/77 it was mission impossible.

The Aloha announcement from 1972 is awful, Elvis is clearly struggling with his speech! Elvis was much more coherent for the Aloha shows. If Elvis was clean for these shows, surely this begs the question that he could see how the drugs he took effected him and his performances? This would seem to indicate that some of the drugs he took were not for medical reasons :hmm: otherwise he would not have stopped!

I don't ever disrespect Elvis, Elvis' life took a path that even the strongest of people would never be able to handle. The fact is we should all be open and honest about his life, Priscilla pretty much Tell's it like it is these days whether we believe her or not!!!

There are more threads on this message board celebrating Elvis and his music and what he has given us in our lives than there is discussing his failings. Yes opinions are wanted and even sought but we can always choose to avoid what we don't like to read!

Healthy debate every once in a while opens our eyes to a perspective we might not have thought of before, just as long as people don't take the comments about Elvis as personal.

I have to say sometimes I get angry about Elvis' drug problem because without it he would still be here:hmm:

(I realise that people will be angry at the above comment, I know Elvis took drugs for medical reasons also :blush: )

Matt

[KPM]

KPM,
Nobody is saying Elvis was a jerk.It's just that so many fans want to seek out convenient scapegoats for Elvis' problems.I've been a fan a long time and it's always been commonplace to do this.It's much easier to shift the blame rather than admit Elvis was his own worst enemy.I honestly believe Elvis was basically a good hearted person and genuinely cared for others around him.I also believe he had a dark side.His drug problem made this even worse.I believe it ruined his personal life and his career.To a certain degree Elvis gave up on his career in the end.The drugs took his motivation and desire away from him.Who knows what he would have done had his judgement not been clouded by the drugs.The people around him tried several times to turn him around.Sadly though Elvis' massive ego would not let him accept that he had a problem.The image of Elvis that was carefully constructed over the years differed from the private man of course.Confronting Elvis Presley one on one on his own turf had to be a monumental task to say the least.You would not have been dealing with the shy humble country boy who was always willing to talk to his fans.I really dont think many fans know what Elvis was capable of behind closed doors.
Jak
I also am a longtime fan. I am 52 and been a fan since 1961. I have now 63 books about Elvis, and have 100s of hours of video -movies, interviews with MM members (radio and tv) tribute shows, daytime talk etc dating to before he died. I do realize how the dependencies worked on him. I think my posts prove that, but my only point is that there are 2 sides to every story the other side has been told at least 63 times(and thats only my collection I know there are hundreds of books) by authors, co-authors, MM, family, extended family, people who barely knew him and people who did not know him at all. Some peoples versions have markedly changed as years go by. Everyone behind closed doors is not who you think they are, because everyone is human. I know what he was capable of, what all people are capable of under stress, under drug dependency, under a microscope. But the person who can give "his account" has never opened his mouth to answer every book, interview, revelation, supposed fact. He has a story also. I just think occasionally that should be taken into account. Occasionally we could say I wonder what his version is(or would be) If we are all willing to give the MM and everyone else who writes a book or gives an interview -credance-maybe it would not hurt to sometime think ELVIS would have had his own side. He would have had his own opinions on the MM and what their motives were, what there actions meant, etc. I am not a fan who thinks of Elvis as the shy country boy -but I don't think of the MM as blameless either. My eyes are open to both sides the ones we've heard -and the one we won't. Thats my point.